Filter questions, maybe a DIY in the future?

[fishbait]

here is a pic so you can get a few ideas. the water is still a little cloudy because i just added the sand a couple hours ago.

the water drains from the tank into the left side where the skimmer is located.
the first 3 pieces of glass are bubble traps to stop all the microbubbles from the skimmer and the drain from the tank. the center section is the refugium, with sand, rubble rock and chaetomorpha macro algae. the water then goes over the last baffle/bubble trap to the return area where the pump is located. you will want a low water flow through the refugium to keep from washing out the sand, pods, and all the macro algae. so, make sure the water comes across the top in the refugium section, and not the bottom.

 

[hotimportknight]

Could someone please let me know if this is a good idea or not quick? I already started cleaning my closet...

 

[hotimportknight]

Ah, that picture really helps me understand this... thanks! Is there any need for a regular filter then? I've seen some with like a sock looking filter bag around the end of the hose putting the water into the sump.

 

[reeffreak]

Its better than a good idea,its a great idea.A sump/refugium with skimmer is the preferred method these days.

BTW,Fish your sump and stuff looks great!

 

[reeffreak]

Some sumps has those filter socks and others like on mine has a sponges to catch large debris.Some people don't use anything,the choice is up to you.

 

[hotimportknight]

SO the closet thing should work? Ill put it on the floor under some shelving i have in there, maybe remove the bottom 2 rows of shelves, that way I dont have to completely empty my closet... only thing I can think of is will it make my clothes all humid and musty? Ive got some expensive clothes in my only closet availible...

 

[hotimportknight]

Or do you think I should just go out and find a 10 gal tall tank, that would fit right under my display? What size is that you used fishbait? It doesnt look very long, looks taller, but it could all be in the perspective... Ive seen 125 gal tanks online and thought they were small from the perspective.

 

[reeffreak]

I wouldn't put a sump in the closet for obvious reasons you already mentioned.Put whatever will fit in the stand.

I have to say you sound so like me at your age...import cars,car audio and just getting into the saltwater hobby.I once owned a car audio business and was a big fan of what we called pocket rockets...CRX,Civics,GTI's,MR2 etc.I even have some IASCA trophies from back then.All well,that was ages ago.

 

[fishbait]

it's 20 gallon tall. it's exactly 241/4 inches long. as you can see it was a tight fit. my cabinet is 245/8 inches. I had to remove the doors to get it in.

the closet trick should work. like you said you will have to deal with moisture in you're closet, and head loss from the pump since you are pumping a longer distance. it may take a slightly larger pump to do the job than what you origanaly planned if it was going under tank.

as far as the size goes, a 10 gallon sump is better than no sump in my opinion. have you checked the diminsions on a 15 gallon yet. they are slightly shorter than a 20, i think.

 

[hotimportknight]

Alright a little research, I kinda do wanna stick to what will fit under my display now just to make it easier. Here are the specs on the biggest tank I can fit, due to the very little width of my stand 12.5 exactly..

"15 Show 24 1/4 x 8 1/2 x 16 5/8"

So i dont think I could really fit something that is 12.5 inches, I guess they normally measure the base dont they? So if that fit tight it would leave about 1/4 inch on each side clearance... But getting it in there, my openings for the doors are only 15 inches wide.

 

[hotimportknight]

I could build a mock one out of some cardboard and duct tape, shouldnt take too long at all... except I dont have that much cardboard right now, Id have to run to work and get some when its not raining like crazy.

 

[hotimportknight]

I wonder what is the biggest thing I can angle in there... God this has to be the worst stand ever to fit a sump under it... 16" wide door openings, 12.5" between braces... Do we have any very smart people in here reading tonight that have a calculation for that? Too late to angle it in from the top, ive got 500 lbs of water sitting up there.

 

[fishbait]

if you are really handy at diy stuff, then you could build one from scratch. here's a link that may help. Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

 

[hotimportknight]

How much does acrylic cost? does any one have any idea to give me a general idea of what it would cost...? How expensive and what type of pump do you normally use for a return? I understand from the readings you want one that is more powerful than you need, then you regulate it down with some sort of valve to match the flow of the inlet from the siphon? Also I think I could build an overflow box from that diagram once I saw what it was, and how it kept a siphon if power cut out and stuff...

 

[Bifferwine]

Acrylic is pretty expensive. I know for sure that they carry it and will cut it for you for no extra cost at Lowe's. You could check it out. You don't need to get a pump that is more powerful than what you need. In fact, it's better to get one that is rated less gph than the overflow box is. Because the pump will determine how much water is in the display tank. Water in the display tank has to reach a certain level to go through the overflow box. If your pump is rated higher than the overflow box, the display tank will flood because water is being pumped into it faster than the overflow box can remove it. If your pump is rated lower than the overflow box, the display tank will never flood, but the sump will never flood either, because water can only go through the overflow box as fast as your pump is returning it. I hope I didn't confuse you too much...

In my old sump, I had a pump that was way too powerful for my overflow box. Out of PVC, I built a T with a ball valve on each branch from the pump, one branch going to the display and one going back into the sump. You don't want to just put a ball valve on the return line, because that will cause a lot of back pressure on the pump, which can burn it out. By being able to redirect some of the water back into the sump, you avoid putting any back pressure on the pump, but are still able to control the flow into the display tank.

In my old sump, I used an Eheim 1260 as a return pump for a 55 gallon display tank (635 gph). For my new 240, I upgraded to a MagDrive 18 (1800 gph). I try to aim for around 10 times the volume of the tank turnaround...

 

[hotimportknight]

I found a 10 gallon tank, its just the right size to be the BIGGEST thing I can possibly fit in there, its a tight squeeze.. but Im thinking about making a 2 compartment sump/fuge, 1 size for a skimmer, and the other side for the fuge and return, just make sure nothing gets in the return pump, maybe put a little compartment there and a filter on the end of the inlet for the pump. It had to be tipped on end to fit, it couldnt be put in any other way, I guess ideally It could be about 1/2 inch longer, but thats IT. I think this will have to do, make something like this:

Here it is under my stand, takes up about exactly half the stand with room on the far end for the skimmer or what ever direction I have it go, it doesnt fit flush with the end on the right side, but the left side it slides all the way back for some reason or another...

 

[Bifferwine]

Looks good. You will definitely have to separate the return pump from the refugium somehow, or else all your sand will get sucked up. The return pump is usually kept in a (separate) 3rd section, but you are restricted by space in a 10 gallon tank. I'm sure someone on here more handy than I can come up with ideas of how to deal with that. Hint hint. Fishbait, Bobby, Yote, Freak, RC...

 

[hotimportknight]

Yeah I figured that would be an issue, I can make a little overflow type of thing in the fuge with slots in the top to allow water to go over it, but not suck any from the bottom by piecing 2 little things of acrylic together in a corner. I just took that tank back cause it had a big chip in a corner that was letting off glass shards, and I found some perfectely cut lexan pieces they had that will make perfect baffles for the bubble trap, exactly 10 inches. Lexan is different than acrylic, can anyone confirm that lexan is saltwater safe? its essentially the same thing i think, just stronger...
I just noticed in that one I got off that guys site, he has a little overflow box deal in the corner, you can barely see it, but its there seperating the sand and algae and stuff... I think this will work, I just need a skimmer, a pump, and all the plumbing yet... oh and an overflow I might have to break down any buy... Unless you guys think its safe to just plumb it just under the surface of the water and have to manually start a siphon if power ever goes out. which has happened once in 13 years. And from what I understand I should get a fitting for my pump side that only allows water to flow 1 direction to keep it from backing up in case of a power failure.

 

[Bifferwine]

You will need to buy a one-way valve for the return plumbing so a reverse siphone doesn't start if the power goes off, like you said. Otherwise your sump will flood.

I have no idea about Lexan, sorry. But my guess is that if it is plastic, it is fine.

Keep in mind, the smaller the section for your return pump, the more often you will have to add top off water. When water from your tank evaporates, the display tank's water level and the water levels in the other sections of the sump stay the same. The only place in the tank the water level drops is the section that houses the return pump. So if you make the return section really small, you run the risk that your pump will end up running dry when water evaporates.

 

[hotimportknight]

Ahh, I see. So when the water evaporates nothing will be effected in line is the side of the sump where the pump will be returning water to the display, So I shouldn't make the overflow deal I was talking about too tall. Maybe make it half the height of the normal water level, that should avoid the sand getting in, maybe make it all the way up and just drill lots of little holes from about halfway up to avoid things getting through it from the fuge too, since im combining the return and the fuge into 1 section... What do you think about skimmers in my situation? What would be the best for my slightly small cramped sump? A hang on?