I would consider hiring an attorney to make sure you are covered in all those little areas that nice people don't usually think about... personal, fiscal liabilities and responsibilities, that kind of thing. Also, you should be able to look up records about this business. I wonder what impact the availability of online stores is having on LFS? Also, I would wonder if there is some way you could expand and take advantage of the internet? Could you take a week off your job and work at this LFS? I agree with Biff, your wife is awesome for volunteering to step up but if this is to be your business it is important that people meet you from the beginning. I'm an artist, I work for myself in my "hobby". It does change the way you think about what you do. It is important that you are willing to give up your hobby. It could become all the better because you do it all day but it will change. I totally get that it sucks to work for others. There is a lot of freedom for me because of my career choice. Fortunately, I'm not tied to a store. If you want to go on vacation, get sick, decide to change jobs or even just take a weekend off, you have to make arrangements for your store. I don't think I could do that. If I haven't managed to dissuade you, I would definitely go for it! If I have, think about something else. Whatever you do, have fun. Considering something like this is really, really cool.
Thinking About Buying A LFS
- Thread starter Rcpilot
- Start date
naperenterprise
Likes it here...
- Location
- Hopewell, PA
Sounds like a piece of crap guy to deal with... oh well...
Altohombre
The Tennis Pro Reefer
- Location
- Highland Park, NJ
sorry it doesn't seem like its going to work out for you. That guy is a real ass hat. He should just sell all the equipment during some huge sale and then you could have your store and everyone who just got tanks and equipment for cheap would need your fish and corals to buy.
Rcpilot
Reef pro
- Location
- Melbourne, FL
I tried to get him to sell me the warehouse full of inventory, but he won't do it.
He's going to sell the existing store, take the name, logo, phone number and CUSTOMERS.......... build a new store for $10 thousand worth of equipment..... sell it for another $25 thousand and walk into the 3rd and final store with $50 thousand in working capital. Build it and sell it. Retire. It might take him 2 more years to build those other 2 stores, but he's going to carry the name and logo with him until hes finally done.
He's being upfront about building 2 more stores and selling them. He's just not being TOTALLY upfront about WHY he won't give up the name. He claims he owes suppliers money and "you don't want my suppliers hounding you over my debts" The NAME is EVERYTHING. It's THE name in this area for all things related to fish and the hobby in general. He knows that, but he's not revealing it to potential buyers.
If his suppliers REALLY have cut him off, then he wouldn't give 2 shits about the name. I could purchase the name and call it Joe Asshat Aquatics, doing business as Sherman Tank. That would protect me from his suppliers and he knows that. If his suppliers had REALLY cut him off, it wouldn't be worth taking his name with him to set up 2 more stores. He'd put the stores in somebody else's names and set up as a new store with a new name. Then he could work with those suppliers again with a clean slate and none of them would know who he was.
He's a shit head. I'm glad I thought this through. I was ready to jump up and run to my bank tomorrow to fill out papers for a small business loan.
He's going to sell the existing store, take the name, logo, phone number and CUSTOMERS.......... build a new store for $10 thousand worth of equipment..... sell it for another $25 thousand and walk into the 3rd and final store with $50 thousand in working capital. Build it and sell it. Retire. It might take him 2 more years to build those other 2 stores, but he's going to carry the name and logo with him until hes finally done.
He's being upfront about building 2 more stores and selling them. He's just not being TOTALLY upfront about WHY he won't give up the name. He claims he owes suppliers money and "you don't want my suppliers hounding you over my debts" The NAME is EVERYTHING. It's THE name in this area for all things related to fish and the hobby in general. He knows that, but he's not revealing it to potential buyers.
If his suppliers REALLY have cut him off, then he wouldn't give 2 shits about the name. I could purchase the name and call it Joe Asshat Aquatics, doing business as Sherman Tank. That would protect me from his suppliers and he knows that. If his suppliers had REALLY cut him off, it wouldn't be worth taking his name with him to set up 2 more stores. He'd put the stores in somebody else's names and set up as a new store with a new name. Then he could work with those suppliers again with a clean slate and none of them would know who he was.
He's a shit head. I'm glad I thought this through. I was ready to jump up and run to my bank tomorrow to fill out papers for a small business loan.
cthegame
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- California
i didnt read all of this thread so if im repeating whats been said, sorry!
i wouldnt make this investment during these times. Buying a hobby business can be extremely rewarding but just as much on the negative end if times are rough. People cant afford to to spend money on their hobbies at the moment (majority of people, not everyone of course) and if they do, it wont be enough to make you alot of profit. I think its a good idea but not now...just my :twocents:
i wouldnt make this investment during these times. Buying a hobby business can be extremely rewarding but just as much on the negative end if times are rough. People cant afford to to spend money on their hobbies at the moment (majority of people, not everyone of course) and if they do, it wont be enough to make you alot of profit. I think its a good idea but not now...just my :twocents:
Oscarsdad608
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- belleville,wi
Sorry it didn't work out. At least you did't lose your ass first.
RAYRAY
Tiny Tank Club A+ Member
- Location
- Lindenwold,NEW JERSEY USA
wow !! RC that was close !!!! I am glas you did more research s oyou didn't get SCREWED!!!!!
Bifferwine
I am a girl
- Location
- Lynnwood, WA and missing Tucson, AZ
He's a man with a plan. That's for sure. I think it will be super hard for him to find someone to buy one store in the near future, let alone three.
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- Cuba, New York
RC this still wouldnt be a bad deal IF you set the store up as Saltwater Only, being in such a major metropolitan area you could still do a hell of a business. I could put you in contact with two WORLD CLASS shops that could help you set up connections in the livestock end of things. I personally would ditch the freshwater stuff totally. And with the gazillion 40 gallon breeders you could have a great livestock selection. Get yourself some large lookdown tanks for coral display and run with it. I wouldnt kill the idea yet just take a step back. A 50K investment really isnt that bad for a turnkey business, at least IMO. Just my two cents take if for what it is.
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- Cuba, New York
One last question RC. Would you own the building or just be leasing it?
I think I'm with RyanG on this one. Knowledge is power and know what you are getting into. Hobby businesses are risky anytime there is an economic recession, I agree, but if you want to start your own business you've got plenty of opportunities in front of you. Maybe you could start a limited online business, you could specialize in one aspect of the business and work hard to promote that. Keep your day job for a year while you promote your new business. You could also start making a new name in your area. If you're talking about the Denver area you've got a rather large population to cater to. Maybe you could service tanks one day a week or focus on custom design... Maybe you're plans will change because of this jerk you're talking to but you don't have to give up on the idea completely. Brainstorm the idea with your wife and see if you can work into this gradually. That would allow you time to decide if you're ready to take your hobby to the next level and it would let you build your business your way. I would use this time to explore your options and "try on" the idea of being a business owner. Just my opinion.
catherine
Oh, and if you're looking for a photographer/web designer, I know someone that will work for frags!
catherine
Oh, and if you're looking for a photographer/web designer, I know someone that will work for frags!
Rcpilot
Reef pro
- Location
- Melbourne, FL
I've not given up on the idea completely.
But I'm not buying the store from this other guy. If I decide to go forward, I will build my own store from the ground up. There's no sense in buying his skeletons and not getting to use the name that is so recognized around the city.
I would be leasing any retail space. I just can't afford to purchase a retail space in this market. That would probably cost a minimum of $500 thousand.
I was talking to my best friend last night and he offered to let me set up the 90g tank in his retail space. He owns a security and fire alarm business. He leases a 2500sq.ft retail space, but he only uses about 1000sq.ft. He said I can bring the 90g tank down and set it up to farm frags. He doesn't want anything except $25-$30 a month for his light bill. He knows how much his electric bill is right now and he just wants me to pick up the tab for the electricity I use on the 90g frag tank. He has a website and several terabytes of server space that he's not using. My cost to purchase a domain name and use up to 1 TeraByte of his server space would run about $4 or $5 per month.
Setting up a frag tank and running a website is more up my alley. The risk is much lower. the downside is I have to spend about 12-16 months setting it up and growing frags from mother colonies first. The cash output from me would be enormous over the next 12 months. I wouldn't start seeing a return for probably 16-18 months. But it's still less risk than renting retail space and purchasing 80 tanks along with somebody else's skeletons.
But I'm not buying the store from this other guy. If I decide to go forward, I will build my own store from the ground up. There's no sense in buying his skeletons and not getting to use the name that is so recognized around the city.
I would be leasing any retail space. I just can't afford to purchase a retail space in this market. That would probably cost a minimum of $500 thousand.
I was talking to my best friend last night and he offered to let me set up the 90g tank in his retail space. He owns a security and fire alarm business. He leases a 2500sq.ft retail space, but he only uses about 1000sq.ft. He said I can bring the 90g tank down and set it up to farm frags. He doesn't want anything except $25-$30 a month for his light bill. He knows how much his electric bill is right now and he just wants me to pick up the tab for the electricity I use on the 90g frag tank. He has a website and several terabytes of server space that he's not using. My cost to purchase a domain name and use up to 1 TeraByte of his server space would run about $4 or $5 per month.
Setting up a frag tank and running a website is more up my alley. The risk is much lower. the downside is I have to spend about 12-16 months setting it up and growing frags from mother colonies first. The cash output from me would be enormous over the next 12 months. I wouldn't start seeing a return for probably 16-18 months. But it's still less risk than renting retail space and purchasing 80 tanks along with somebody else's skeletons.
Kwater
Chill
- Location
- Redondo Beach, CA
does the economy being bad make it eiser or harde to do something like that.
JAG107
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- Corona, Ca
Actually that frag tank idea sounds really good. You could get ahold of some LE corals,which could make a huge return in 16-24 mos. of growing. Also, (hopefully) the economy will be in better shape by then. My $0.02, go for it!
daugherty
part time reefer
- Location
- Billings, MT USA
i will say that is something that i have wanted to do for a long time but never have had the assets to back up a loan. i would do it and just reset the store it is so much cheaper than building one from the ground up. but this guy just seems shady and he knows what he is doing
See, now that's what I'm talkin' about! I build web sites for fun and I could make you something real nice that would accept paypal. You probably also know a lot of other people on this site that would be able to work with you on getting a good frag selection going. By going in baby steps your over head is very low, you get to "get your feet wet" with the idea of changing from hobby to business. The only problem is that this would let you put things on the back burner. You won't make the money you could make by setting up a store-front, would that scafre you out of the idea of setting up a store? Remember, selling a few frags on ebay or on your own site is good for pocket change, I would make a business plan that eventually built up to owning a "brick and mortar" store within a certain period of time, say a year. That way you'll keep your dream of building a reputation and a name alive and keep in mind that the revenue generated with a little web site is nothing compared to a real store. I know with my little business I need to keep a future in mind or I get nothing done. I HIGHLY recommend getting in touch with your local University. They will have a small business advisory office. This is a FREE service that will assist you in EVERYTHING about setting up a business. This office will usually be connected with the continuing education department or adult community education. It should be FREE or you're at the wrong place. They will have classes, mentors, legal papers and all that stuff you will need to know about making your business work. If you put all this in your wife's name, you could get a bunch of federal funding that is available to woman entrepreneurs. Have her check out the local branch of NABO- National assotiaion of woman business owners- they can help you find low interest government business loans and stuff. In our area these services are wonderful and really help you put your goals in perspective. I didn't get any loans and I intentionally keep things really small because this business is my hobby and I like having as much freedom as possible. If I were really counting on this for anything other than Christmas money, I would do all the stuff I just suggested for you. Am I telling you more than you want to know? You can PM me if you want or call, I'd be happy to share my experiences with you guys. HAVE FUN or it's not worth the work and good luck!!!! How exciting!!!!!!!
Catherine
Catherine
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- Cuba, New York
IMO do both, use the storefront and the eStore hand in hand. That is the forum that would generate the the most capitol.
Rcpilot
Reef pro
- Location
- Melbourne, FL
After discussing this with several trusted friends and family members, I have decided NOT to open a storefront at this time.
I AM going to start the frag operation though. I can build the tank at my own pace. There is no pressure. Keep my day job. You know what everybody always says, "Don't quit your day job!" :mrgreen:
I will sell frags from the 10g frag tank that is already up and running. I've been saving that money for Christmas and also using it to buy salt and food for the 30g and the frag tank. It's probably time to remove all the sand and live rocks from the fragano. Biff called it a fragano because I put sand and rocks in it. I should go bare bottom with egg crates and get serious about it. I've probably got enough frags in there to buy the lights for the 90g if I tried really hard and sold them all. I just counted over 25 polyps of Purple Death, 10 fuzzy mushrooms, over 100 polyps of Pink Palythoa, over 100 polyps of assorted zoas, about 50 yellow polyps, 3 striped mushrooms, 3 purple mushrooms, and a 6-line wrasse that I don't like. There's $500 worth of frags in that tank right now!! :^:
I've just been advertising on Craigslist and a few websites for now. I think I will put more effort into the advertising and probably start a website after the new year.
I really appreciate the input from all of you. Living Reefs is my home. I visit other sites, but I only post in their discussion forums so that I can use the site to sell my frags. I am grateful for and respect your input. All of you. Who knows? Maybe some day I'll make a decent living at this? I'd be willing to give deals to my LR friends. I'd also support this site financially when I had enough money to help out in any significant way.
Picasso:
I REALLY appreciate the offer to help with the website. I will probably take you up on that offer when I'm, ready to move forward.
I AM going to start the frag operation though. I can build the tank at my own pace. There is no pressure. Keep my day job. You know what everybody always says, "Don't quit your day job!" :mrgreen:
I will sell frags from the 10g frag tank that is already up and running. I've been saving that money for Christmas and also using it to buy salt and food for the 30g and the frag tank. It's probably time to remove all the sand and live rocks from the fragano. Biff called it a fragano because I put sand and rocks in it. I should go bare bottom with egg crates and get serious about it. I've probably got enough frags in there to buy the lights for the 90g if I tried really hard and sold them all. I just counted over 25 polyps of Purple Death, 10 fuzzy mushrooms, over 100 polyps of Pink Palythoa, over 100 polyps of assorted zoas, about 50 yellow polyps, 3 striped mushrooms, 3 purple mushrooms, and a 6-line wrasse that I don't like. There's $500 worth of frags in that tank right now!! :^:
I've just been advertising on Craigslist and a few websites for now. I think I will put more effort into the advertising and probably start a website after the new year.
I really appreciate the input from all of you. Living Reefs is my home. I visit other sites, but I only post in their discussion forums so that I can use the site to sell my frags. I am grateful for and respect your input. All of you. Who knows? Maybe some day I'll make a decent living at this? I'd be willing to give deals to my LR friends. I'd also support this site financially when I had enough money to help out in any significant way.
Picasso:
I REALLY appreciate the offer to help with the website. I will probably take you up on that offer when I'm, ready to move forward.
