Hi, I'm new

[Australis]

Hey guys...the ich is back for round 2
Salinity is at 1.010...for a week...it was wearin off and now it pop up again
er...wats going on ???
How do i knock them out ?
Coz mzny of my other fishes tat didnt get it previously are gettin it this time...:frustrat:
Shud i UV the tub's water ???

 

[lightcs4]

The reason your other fish are getting ich is because the spots drop onto the sand or rock and, in a few days, break open to let out a multitude of parasites per "spot" (there is a name for them at this stage but I can't remember it).

I don't know about the UV. I have found people such as Fatman, Bifferwine, Reeffreak, and others here to be great resources (and know a lot more than I do about reefing). It is likely one or several will have an educated opinion.

I would keep the salinity at 1.008 - 1.010 for several weeks. The tomolts (or something like that - someone will correct me) are attached to the fish. They can't be killed by hyposalinity until they fall off, then break open and are free swimming. I would re-read the explanation Fatman as he provided excellent information. You need at least four weeks without signs of ich before moving the salinity back to normal. I am waiting for six to seven weeks with no outward signs to be on the safe side.

Good luck with it.

 

[Bifferwine]

Lights is right, it will take a lot longer than a week of hyposalinity to kill the ich. A UV sterilizer will definitely help, but UV sterilizers have downsides too -- they don't kill all the ich (but they kill a lot of it), and they will also kill the good stuff in your tank. In your tank, I'd recommend one as you have stocked a lot of sensitive fish very quickly. I would keep up with the hyposalinity for at least a month, two to be safe.

 

[Australis]

Can i do fresh water dipping on the fish ?
I see that the white spots spreading real fast...even at 1.090...
Wont that be killin the bugs or at least lower their activities ?

 

[McCrary]

Treatment of ich in fish is always a short term solution, of those solutions copper treatment seems to have the best results. Copper basically irritates the skin of the fish and causes them to produce excess mucus which gets rid of the ich. For long term you need lots of food and good water quality combined with a stress free environment. Ich can and will pop up occasionally on tangs, but it should go away soon if the environment is right.

 

[fatman]

Once Ich is eliminated it is gone, it will not reappear regardless of stress or anything short of reintroduction of the Ich to your system. Hyposalinity is an effective treatment of Ich, but it is not an instant or even a quick treatment. Your fish will need to endure the itch utill the Ich enters its next segment of its life cycle. If they now appear as white spots they are at the tomont (reproductive) stage. Preceding that stage they were not visible but were embedded in the tissues, eyes, and gills of the fish, that is the actual parasite stage. The third stage is when the tomonts release their tomites, which is the free swimming stage of the Ich parasite. The Ich tropants are killed by hyposalinity when they are on the fishes surface (not embedded below the skins surface) and when the tomites are free swimming. Fresh water dips is not considered s effective as many tomants are embedded under the skin. Plus fresh water dips are known for causing delayed mortality (deaths) of the host fish. Copper treats the Ich because it poisons the Ich, just as it poisons the fish but to a smaller extent. Copper would also be absorbed by your tank, live rock and any ocean sand in your tank.
The full cycle for Ich is very short at temperatures above 80 degrees, which you provide. At temperatures above 85 to 90 degrees the reproduction actually stops. Temperature conversions: C = (F - 32)/1.8 therefore, 80 = 26.67 degrees C, 85 = 29.44 degrees C, 90 = 32.22 degrees C

 

[lightcs4]

The full cycle for Ich is very short at temperatures above 80 degrees, which you provide. At temperatures above 85 to 90 degrees the reproduction actually stops. Temperature conversions: C = (F - 32)/1.8 therefore, 80 = 26.67 degrees C, 85 = 29.44 degrees C, 90 = 32.22 degrees C

Can fish survive at 85 - 90 degree temps? And, does the high temp kill the parasite or just put them into a dormant stage?

 

[fatman]

Fish can easily survive 85 to 90 degrees as long as there is adequate oxygen. This does require action by the aquarist to assure the oxygen level is adequate through aeration and circulation. Raising the temperature artificially that high is not something one would want to purposely do though as it is extremely stressful, fish can survive but that is about all. They do not feed, and seldom swim at those temperature in a tank. The tomants are unable to reproduce at high temps but it does not kill them out right. They will die however at an accelerated rate. And they will die if they can not reproduce. They normally only go two to four days in the parasite stage at high temperatures, and up to fourteen day at cold temperatures (60 degrees F or 15 degrees C) after this time they reproduce and are in a visible tomant stage (white cysts) where they develop over a period from 3 to 28 days (again based on Temperature), they may or may not fall off the fish during this time. Upon hatching they have only 48 hours to find a host or they die.

 

[Australis]

Er guys...
It seems like the ich are havin a party...3rd round reinfestation the spots are everywhere.
I'm thinking of setting up a 2ft quarantine and try to save my angels and tangs...
What kind of copper based medication u guys recommend ? which particular brand ?
I'm considering this option as i think the whole tub wont make it since theres only 1/3 left :grumble:

 

[fatman]

It has only been 18 days since you first reported the fish scratching themselves. Treatment with copper (like hyposalinity)is not going to be considered over in that short amount of time. Patience is required in most areas of the keeping of reef aquariums/tanks. If you decide to treat with copper outside of your concrete tank, you still have to wait untill the Ich's tomant and tomite stages are over with to return the fish to your tank. Hyposalinity is an effective treatment for Ich and takes no longer than copper treatment. When treating a parasite infestation you are treating the whole system not just the fish. When you switch to another system to treat (another tank and the fish in it) your time period of treatment starts all over again.

 

[Piggy]

What have you lost so far? I would wait it out.

 

[Australis]

Lost the following if i can remember wat i got in there :shock:
1 P.imperator
1 P.navarchus
3 Zanclus cornutus
1 Acanthurus leucosternon
1 Acanthurus japonicus
2 Zebrasoma flavescens
1 "red coris"
4 Chaetodon "one spot on the body which i forgot wats it called"
1 Pygoplites ...
and some misc chromis

Now i'm trin to save my other imperator, xantometapon, pyroferus, hepatus, auriga,
Gonna get the UV today after i finish work

 

[fatman]

If you willnot follow good simple directons you will not get good results regardless of the method of treatment. Your fish were not lost due to the Ich but do to other issues, such as a rapid dropping of he salinity. No fish like rapid changes with their water parameters, few can tolerate rapid changes. Hyposalinity is only safe and effective when carried out properly. If I remember right you dropped your salinity in matter of minutes or a few hours at most, and as a result many of your fish ended up upside down in the tank. That is not a result of hyposalinity treatment but a result of impatience and improper procedures. You are going to continue to have many problems with keeping reef fish until you slow down and do things in a proper manner and learn to be a little more patient.

 

[cgoodman381]

Jesus Christ! How long has your tank been set up? Not more then a couple months right? I would recommend taking a look at the articles section. It seems to me you are stocking way to quickly and a lot of the wrong species.

But.... To each their own. I'm just making a suggestion. If it works for you, which with the problems you have been having it seems to not be, then go ahead, but there are better methods that will prevent more of your fish from dieing.

Edit*
I guess Fatman is a faster typer then me. Arg. Alas! I am the better speller though!

 

[Australis]

Er...took 3 days + to drop the salinity from 1.021 to 1.013 and another 1 day to reach 1.009...:shock:

Sorry guys...guess i was over excited...

 

[Bifferwine]

You added WAY too many fish in a short period of time. That's what killed them, I'm guessing, and led to them getting ich.

A good rule of thumb is to add no more than one fish once every 3 weeks. If everyone lives and looks healthy after 3 weeks, you can add another one. I know that we talked about this already, and this is a huge reason why you have had so many fish die.

UV won't make the problem go away. You need to STOP adding fish, you need to treat with either copper or hyposalinity for a long time and be patient in the mean time, and you need to only add fish that will get along with each other in the future. A lot of the fish you listed aren't compatible with each other, and that is another reason why they'd get ich and die.

 

[Australis]

:oops:
Point noted
Lesson learned...
Sorry for the noobiness :bowdown:

Cheers :Cheers:

 

[lightcs4]

:oops:
Point noted
Lesson learned...
Sorry for the noobiness :bowdown:

Cheers :Cheers:

Just keep on posting for help. I know so little compared to the many experts here. I find everyone is willing to help. From my limited experience here, they all want to help you succeed in this hobby and have your best interest at heart.

 

[RyanG]

Basically we are all willing to help as long as you are willing to listen. When you dont listen bad things happen to your system, such as what is happening now. There are a few basic principles to follow the Number One in my book is dont do things that are going to endanger the species that you keep. Adding way too much way too soon was a major infraction of that rule. Do some reading in the articles section or buy a GOOD reefkeeping book such as The Conscientous Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner. That would be a good place to start while you are waiting the 6 weeks for the ich to go through its cycle and not be viable anymore. Just my two cents take it for what its worth.

 

[Australis]

Thanks guys...
Really appreciate ur understanding and long suffering :Cheers:

Currently the spots have dropped...so i guess round 4 of the cycle is in the process
Got an ozonizer and currently blasting my first section of my sump...tryin to kill the free swimmin ich jr. :grumble: