ok.. something is not right..

[FishyReef]

Yup, I think Yote's got ya covered. This isn't a fun problem to deal with :(

 

[poksal]

Sorry, I thought I had posted an update.. but I guess it went into the bit-bucket in the sky.

I fastened an acid brush to a long plastic stick and used it to brush "the stuff". If brushes off easy. Does that help in the ID?

 

[yote]

Yep it does. That tells me that it's cyano-bacyeria.

 

[poksal]

Yep it does. That tells me that it's cyano-bacyeria.

That was fast... thank you! :bowdown:

...so cut back some on light as a first ditch...?? It really isn't all that bad at this juncture.

 

[yote]

If it's not that bad, just siphon out as much as possible when you do your water change and look at getting some more water flow in that area of the tank.
But a day or 2 with the lights off wont hurt anything either.

 

[poksal]

If it's not that bad, just siphon out as much as possible when you do your water change and look at getting some more water flow in that area of the tank.
But a day or 2 with the lights off wont hurt anything either.

Thanx.. I'm about to buy a second Vortex to slave off my other one. That should make a difference then. My flow is not so bad but with an additional Vortex I can make adjustments... is my thinking. AND..I'm going to leave off a group of the white LEDs for a couple of days... I did this before and it tends to help.

In fact.. I think I have too many white LEDs and I can't really dim them like I would like without them dropping out. So I think I will add a driver and split off a group. This will fix a couple of things.. Good stuff.

 

[poksal]

I just saw one of my shrimp and I thought they were all dead.... I hadn't seen one in weeks. He was at the sea-weed strip feeding.

 

[yote]

That's really not to surprising since shrimp are nocturnal for the most part.

 

[poksal]

That's really not to surprising since shrimp are nocturnal for the most part.

The point here is that I thought I had killed them somehow. I was thrilled to see one alive and well... though it looked like it had a new molt job... very transparent. I figure it was out and hungry.. does this add up?

 

[yote]

Yep. That's normal.
Shrimp and crabs hide for a while after molting to give the new shell time to harden.
So I'm sure they'd get pretty hungry while hiding. That would make them more apt to be out during the day.

 

[poksal]

OK team.. things are much better and many of the life forms I thought I was killing are fine.. except for the snails and I'm betting they were doomed before I ever got them... with hind sight.

SO.. should/could we add a goby/pistol shrimp pair?.. if so.. how do we make sure they find a hole or low cave and hang there before.. the damsels and lavender tang hen pick them.. or would they?

If I use the mirror trick the yellow tails and tang get obsessed with it .. .LOL... and almost forget to eat. so I can use that trick.

..AND... if I do that .... what is the absolute best way to introduce them???

 

[Homer]

Problem Evidence:
Have never been able to keep a snail alive for more that 24-48 hours. Currently, I went without snails for a month. Zoa’s don’t thrive and generally algae up or wither. Most recently thought things must be ok as all water test seem to be ok (posted below) so I tried a Conch Snail and a Bristle Star. Both died in around 36 hours. A feather duster (1/2” dia.) died after about a week. Shrimp don’t last but two to three days. I have taken extreme care to drip acclimate them carefully.

Clues:
All fish are apparently happy, fat and robust. Hermits are doing fine ( I haven’t seen them this morning but that is not unusual) and some hermits have been with the tank since it was alive. I don’t think I have ever lost a hermit. The tank birth day was about Sept. 10th this year. There is a 15 gallon sump with some filter floss at the input side from the tank return and skimmer. This floss gets cleaned often. I plan to remove it when the tank matures but in the mean time it helps with the bubble control. There is a refuge with plenty of LR. The skimmer makes enough pea soup to convince me it is doing a quality enough job,(don’t ask the brand of skimmer because I haven’t a clue as I got it used --- and is it is performing well enough to not be the problem.) All corals added are dipped in “one shot”. Mushrooms are doing just fine.
I use nothing but RODI and have two units, one for my tank ATO and one for my change water. I use an RODI fill tank to avoid RODI short circuit problems for ATO. My city water tests at 174 and is at 132 after the first stage of filtering, after the RO and DI filters both systems show 000 at their installed meters.

Things that have changed over the life of the tank and haven’t seemed to improve the ability to keep snails or zoa’s: The refuge is about half as old as the tank. I added a GFO and carbon reactor about a month ago and currently have that circuit valve turned off. I am currently breaking in an algae scrubber as an effort to solve the problem and it seems to be slow IMO to get going although it has plenty of flow, light, and (I think) food. I had the skimmer off for a short spell when I added the Conch and Bristle Starr to be sure they wouldn’t starve. I have a 18” tall Vertex reactor I purchased for bio pellets but am running it full of LR rubble and it was put online about 6 weeks ago. I started with MH lights and switch to LED’s and could not keep snails before or after that change, nor did zoa’s.

Additional information:
I can’t keep snails or shrimp alive in the refuge either. There are no hermits in the refuge…. Note the various things I have changed and none of those have affected nor apparently corrected the problem. This makes me wonder about a chemical I haven’t tested for. I’d think the GFO and carbon reactors would of had some effect on that possibility. I have been changing water at about 15% for the last three weeks at between 4 to 7 day intervals. I don’t think the feather duster starved because I have been feeding Phyto Feast for the last week at the fuge and added a small amount in the flow to the duster. Additionally I am not sure but I’m fairly sure I’m not having normal luck keeping PODs, but I have nothing to compare with and they are hard to spot.The water is rarely crystal clear but IMO may be because I am changing things often in an effort to find the problem. It tends to be a slightly milky most of the time. This seems to be better in the AM after the lights have been off for the night, or that could be my imagination. There should be PLENTY of LR.

I came home from a trip to Mom’s to find the Brittle Star, Conch, and Feather Duster dead .. my best response was to toss my hands in the air and say, “what the hell”.

In my opinion this is a time to show grit as a cohesive team to solve this problem so that these creatures can live a healthy life. So consider me as the collective team's hands or lab tech so we can fix it.

Chemistry: (ND means not detectable)
95 gallons if tank about 30 gallons of refuge/sumps/etc.
Temp = 25.6°C +/-.3°C (78.08°f); Salinity = 33; pH = 8.2; Phosphates = .1; Alk = 11; Nitrate = ND; Nitrites = ND; Copper = ND; Ammonia = ND; Calcium = 480; Mag = 1260

The basic tests were confirmed by my fav LFS.
If I need to test for something else.. just suggest it, I’m aboard!
Ask questions and expect answers.

I have the same fudging problem.. Bought cleaner shrimp today - died withing 4 hours... Hermit is fine, fish are fine... I`m running my aquarium lights 24/7, maybe that is the problem :)

 

[poksal]

Well I just ordered $85 worth of hermits and snails... .. cough.. we'll see.

 

[poksal]

Yesterday I added two torches and a hammer... I cranked the lights down about half for today... added some phyto feast (not much)... . I did the drip, dip, and low in the tank process...

I have no idea what to expect as to their getting used to my tank.. this am after the lights came on the torches are out about 1/5th the way out from what they were at the LFS. The hammer is only peeking at the openings of the skeleton. Is this normal..

OK.. your turn .. mentor me..

 

[Amba]

Give them time if you just added them. It can take a while before some corals decide they like their new home. As long as your parameters are good, then just leave them be. I would have both the torches and the hammer low in the tank to start. Also be sure that they aren't getting too much water movement, mine are picky about that.

 

[poksal]

Well, it is not good news...
Over the last several days.. I have added two small torches, a small hammer, and a nice cup. The hammer has withdrawn and I fear it is doomed, ....the torches look bad, one is already showing signs of brown slime. The cup peaked out while floating in the bag and has not peaked out ANY since.

My CUC from reef cleaners has been installed in my refuge and tank and although it looked like I lost a huge portion of the snails by the second day.. I decided in a last ditch effort to dose vodka and I have begun to see many of the snails revive. .. I never expected such a fast response to the vodka ... especially when the first dose is so small . It shows how tiny changes in a reef tank can have large reactions.

I am beginning to think my PO4 test bottle is trash and that my PO4 must be high... too high. I have kicked my GFO and carbon back into action. Maybe it can save the corals. Tomorrow I will be going to purchase a Red Sea PO4 test kit. I'm now on a vodka dose chart. After the first two doses which are very small (but with the GFO in action too).. I can see the difference in the action of the snails.. but this is such a short control time.. shrugg... we will see. However the behavioral actions of the snails is undeniable..it is as if someone breathed life into them... it MUST be PO4.

What is your take? I realize my experience is so short, I hope I'm on the right track. All other tests are well within tolerance... (but..then the PO4 was only cloudy at an estimated .1 to.15, according to my API kit).

Also, I'm getting low in salt and am hearing and reading about many PO4 problems with the new batches..I going to have to buy a new bucket.... It sounds like we may all be on vodka dosing to control our PO4, anyway. I am suspecting that many of our LFS are dosing vodka... in display product tanks. Any opinions???

...Maybe this is going to drive me to my own vodka dosage with orange juice.

 

[Bifferwine]

Question: What do you have in your tank that is doing well? (I don't mean that sarcastically. Just trying to get an idea of what is being impacted/what is not).

 

[poksal]

OK... now I see something...

This AM it is clear that something is eating my torches, & hammer. I have never caught him doing it but my half dollar sized hermit is the first suspect so as soon as he comes out he is going to jail to see if it solves the problem. Then I will be watching the tank carefully. I have a night view scope, I will be using that if it can see that close.

I never did catch that tiny crab I saw and finally assumed he was dead.. so I will be using a glass as a trap near the torches.

As for the cup.. do I need to have it at the other end of the tank away fro my ailing torches?

 

[poksal]

Question: What do you have in your tank that is doing well? (I don't mean that sarcastically. Just trying to get an idea of what is being impacted/what is not).

'Morning Biff..
shrooms do ok.. could it be that what ever is eating them doesn't like shrooms?

 

[poksal]

UPDATE: It appears at least the majority (perhaps even all) of my CUC is pulling through.. accordingly to my history on this tank that is a major break through.

So if you add in that something is eating my other corals.. if I can catch it and remove it.. ... ... . sounds easy... this can turn around.