SM, I get spotty coverage after 7 days but complete coverage after 14. I just tried waiting this week. What is happening after 1 week to allow complete coverage? is it just that there is more for the algae to hold on to so it grows more? I am not seeing any pods eating the algae as was shown in the pics. I am using a tank divider because that was what was on hand. it sits up off of the water surface about 2 inches. I tried roughing it up but no hole saw to use. Am i doing more harm than good by waiting?
Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Wes888
Reef enthusiast
Yea, according to SM, you must rinse it with tap water in 1 week to kill off the pods even if you don't see any.
Sounds like your sheet is not rough enough and the algae doesn't have enough thing to hang on to.
Sounds like your sheet is not rough enough and the algae doesn't have enough thing to hang on to.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Correct, tank divider is no longer recommended. Use 2 sheets of plastic canvas, roughed up with a hole saw on all four sides.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Here are several updates:
Milburnr on the SC site had this great pic of his flow:
Quick review of why scrubbers work:
1. The light is very near the screen, and is not blocked by anything.
2. The flow is very rapid, which transports more nutrients to and from the algae.
3. The flow (on a vertical waterfall) is very thin, which breaks up boundary layer,
and which lets the most light through.
4. 7-day cleanings keeps the bottom layers of algae from being shaded and dying.
5. Using FW to clean, kills the pods that normally destroy the algae.
Seeding a new screen is no longer recommended, because (1) you get good growth in a week anyway, and (2) the seeding just washes off and adds nutrients to the water.
Barbianj on the RS site made a great high-power CFL setup:
Long vacations: Some people want to use a scrubber, but are gone two or three weeks at a time. Here are the options: The easiest is to do nothing. In this case, after three weeks, the underlying layers of algae will have died. When you return, the water may be cloudy and colored, and the nitrate and phosphate may be increased, but after a screen cleaning and some carbon, it will be back to normal in a few days. This option is ok if you leave only once or twice a year. Nothing should be harmed, however. The next option is to remove the screen. For very long trips, and for cases where you have lots of LR and DSB, this might be best. Of course your tank may develop nuisance algae during the trip because of lack of filtering, and you'll have to start the screen from scratch when you return.
RonRon on the RP site built one with just a tupperware box:
Here's another option to attach your screen: Curtain rings...
Milburnr on the SC site had this great pic of his flow:
Quick review of why scrubbers work:
1. The light is very near the screen, and is not blocked by anything.
2. The flow is very rapid, which transports more nutrients to and from the algae.
3. The flow (on a vertical waterfall) is very thin, which breaks up boundary layer,
and which lets the most light through.
4. 7-day cleanings keeps the bottom layers of algae from being shaded and dying.
5. Using FW to clean, kills the pods that normally destroy the algae.
Seeding a new screen is no longer recommended, because (1) you get good growth in a week anyway, and (2) the seeding just washes off and adds nutrients to the water.
Barbianj on the RS site made a great high-power CFL setup:
Long vacations: Some people want to use a scrubber, but are gone two or three weeks at a time. Here are the options: The easiest is to do nothing. In this case, after three weeks, the underlying layers of algae will have died. When you return, the water may be cloudy and colored, and the nitrate and phosphate may be increased, but after a screen cleaning and some carbon, it will be back to normal in a few days. This option is ok if you leave only once or twice a year. Nothing should be harmed, however. The next option is to remove the screen. For very long trips, and for cases where you have lots of LR and DSB, this might be best. Of course your tank may develop nuisance algae during the trip because of lack of filtering, and you'll have to start the screen from scratch when you return.
RonRon on the RP site built one with just a tupperware box:
Here's another option to attach your screen: Curtain rings...
project5k
Reef enthusiast
i wish i could see more of that one that uses the plastic bucket.
bjohanson1234
.........
I just finished my under canopy one. It is similar to the one with the plastic storage container but I formed it out of pvc sheets. I will go grab som pics for ya.
Brian
Brian
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea that would be awesome, cause i'm still trying to decide how i wanna do mine... (i'm still trying to decide what and how i want to do all the plumbing in my new stand)
bjohanson1234
.........
It is about 4 inches wide and 24 inches long. I am currently thinking of a way to make some supports for instead of using the 1/2" PVC. It just takes up too much room but my lights fit on there still.
It is being supplied by a Quiet One 1200
I wanted to have the pump inline instead of submersed but the pipe thread broke when I was putting on the adapter last time I buy a Quiet One, cheap plastic fittings. Gonna stick with the Mag pumps.
Using two 24" t8 grow lights and painted the inside white so it would reflect more light than the gray. The place I got the PVC from white sheet was 4 bucks a sheet instead of 2 bucks. Was not going to put foil that close to my tank.
Brian
project5k
Reef enthusiast
see thats what i wanted to do, only i was gonna use pvc pipe, but everyone told me that i couldnt do that cause i wouldnt be able to get enough flow... and that it would trap crap...
bjohanson1234
.........
If it works it works if it doesnt, I really only wasted time since I bought 90% of the material from amazon and I get gift certificats from doing online surveys:mrgreen:
But if you make a trough, I dont see why it wouldnt work. The pipes wouldnt have enough surface area since they are curved.
The pump has 296 gallons @ 0 head preasure
It is only pumping up maybe 6 inches so it is pretty close to that Im sure. goes from 1/2" to 1" so the water would flow out of the T's not shoot out.
Brian
But if you make a trough, I dont see why it wouldnt work. The pipes wouldnt have enough surface area since they are curved.
The pump has 296 gallons @ 0 head preasure
It is only pumping up maybe 6 inches so it is pretty close to that Im sure. goes from 1/2" to 1" so the water would flow out of the T's not shoot out.
Brian
imdaring
love my reef
SantaMonica, I'm still having a problem with the brown algae in my tank I started the scrubber on June 10th and I clean the tar looking algae off the screen at least 2'xs a week aI clean it as soon as it cover the screen.. I have also turned down my MH in my tank and I run them from 11am- 4pm and then I have the blue T5's on from 10am - 8pm... what do you think the problem might be?? the bulbs that I have on the scrubber are 23wt R40 flood Natural spectrum daylights are they maybe not strong enough??
I did find these on ebay would these work better
2 NEW PLANT GROW LIGHT CFL BULBS 6500K
I did find these on ebay would these work better
2 NEW PLANT GROW LIGHT CFL BULBS 6500K
Wes888
Reef enthusiast
I think the latest recommendation is 2700K and they are widely available in Home Depot and similar stores.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Yes the trough versions work great, as long as you have some cactus-rough double-layer screen in there. Your lights are powerful, and the flow looks good. Now it's all about the screen roughness, and cleaning it every 7 days in FW. Keep the lights off for 6 hours each day.
Daring: I need some pics of the lights, screen before cleaning, after cleaning, and flow off the bottom of the screen.
Daring: I need some pics of the lights, screen before cleaning, after cleaning, and flow off the bottom of the screen.
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bjohanson1234
.........
Well today is day one. I'll post pics next monday.
Also have two screens in there. Held in place by plastic dry wall ancors cut down and glues in place with PVC glue.
Total cost was probably 50 bucks or so.
Like I said I need to figure out something thinner to support it. Getting rid of the 1/2" pipe will save about 1" to 1" 1/2 or so.
Brian
Also have two screens in there. Held in place by plastic dry wall ancors cut down and glues in place with PVC glue.
Total cost was probably 50 bucks or so.
Like I said I need to figure out something thinner to support it. Getting rid of the 1/2" pipe will save about 1" to 1" 1/2 or so.
Brian
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SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Many folks have asked about plans for my scrubber, so here are some:
Click here for easier to read version
Click here for easier to read version
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Scrubber News:
Awards: It's finally happened... A scrubber-only tank (no skimmer) has won Tank Of The Month. "Mudshark", whose pics have been posted here for a while, just won the August Tank Of The Month at MASA site.
RC: They have done a few things to keep people from finding out about scrubbers. They've made it so that when you try to post "algaescrubber.net", it is changed to "clay-boa.com". Also, if you try to search for anything scrubber related there, it seems to always have an "error".
Awards: It's finally happened... A scrubber-only tank (no skimmer) has won Tank Of The Month. "Mudshark", whose pics have been posted here for a while, just won the August Tank Of The Month at MASA site.
RC: They have done a few things to keep people from finding out about scrubbers. They've made it so that when you try to post "algaescrubber.net", it is changed to "clay-boa.com". Also, if you try to search for anything scrubber related there, it seems to always have an "error".
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
What is a boundary layer, and why is it important? It the layer of water that is microscopically close to the algae; the water molecules that actually touch the algae:
This boundary layer area of the water has zero flow, because it has to have the same flow as the algae, which of course is zero. Since there is no flow (velocity) here, nutrient transport through it is slow. The faster the water flow, the smaller the boundary layer, and the faster the nutrients can get to/from the algae from the water.
One point to clarify about nutrient exchange: Contact with air is not needed. Scrubbers operate the same whether they are sealed or open (except for cooling/evap), because the exchange is not with the air; it's with the water. The reason algae grows better in an overflow, or where water hits a scrubber screen, or where waves hit the beach, is because the flow is higher here and thus the water's boundary layer is thinner, which allows for better nutrient transfer between the algae and the water. This is what a vertical waterfall scrubber tries to achieve: Fast flow from top to bottom. Further info can be found here:
Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation, p 199, by AWD Larkum, Robert Joseph Orth, Carlos M. Duarte:
"As water flows through seagrass [or algae] beds, a boundary layer develops on the sediment surface, as well as on each seagrass [and algae] component exposed to the moving water. The faster the water moves, the thinner the diffusive boundary layer (DBL) becomes, and consequently, the faster the transfer of molecules from the water column to the sediment and/or seagrass [or algae]. It follows then that when currents [flow] are weak, the flux of molecules to the seagrass [or algae] surface may be limited by diffusion through the [boundary layer] (i.e., physical limitation). Under those conditions, many biological sites or enzymes in the seagrass [or algae] tissue are available to assimilate molecules when/if [!] they reach the plant's [or algal] surface.
This boundary layer area of the water has zero flow, because it has to have the same flow as the algae, which of course is zero. Since there is no flow (velocity) here, nutrient transport through it is slow. The faster the water flow, the smaller the boundary layer, and the faster the nutrients can get to/from the algae from the water.
One point to clarify about nutrient exchange: Contact with air is not needed. Scrubbers operate the same whether they are sealed or open (except for cooling/evap), because the exchange is not with the air; it's with the water. The reason algae grows better in an overflow, or where water hits a scrubber screen, or where waves hit the beach, is because the flow is higher here and thus the water's boundary layer is thinner, which allows for better nutrient transfer between the algae and the water. This is what a vertical waterfall scrubber tries to achieve: Fast flow from top to bottom. Further info can be found here:
Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation, p 199, by AWD Larkum, Robert Joseph Orth, Carlos M. Duarte:
"As water flows through seagrass [or algae] beds, a boundary layer develops on the sediment surface, as well as on each seagrass [and algae] component exposed to the moving water. The faster the water moves, the thinner the diffusive boundary layer (DBL) becomes, and consequently, the faster the transfer of molecules from the water column to the sediment and/or seagrass [or algae]. It follows then that when currents [flow] are weak, the flux of molecules to the seagrass [or algae] surface may be limited by diffusion through the [boundary layer] (i.e., physical limitation). Under those conditions, many biological sites or enzymes in the seagrass [or algae] tissue are available to assimilate molecules when/if [!] they reach the plant's [or algal] surface.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Several Updates:
1. Change CFL or T5 bulbs every THREE MONTHS!
2. Wattage recommendation: 0.5 Watts per gallon for medium filtering. 1.0 for high filtering.
3. CFL bulbs: 55W is the max that works good. If you need more watts, get two or three smaller ones, or go to T5HO (best)
4. Skimmer overflow: Be careful of your skimmer overflowing (if it does not have an overflow tube.) The rotting food in the skimmer cups has been growing bacteria, and thus producing ammonia, so if it overflows into your sump, the ammonia can kill things. If this happens, then a scrubber removes this ammonia from the water (skimmers do not remove ammonia; they only make ammonia in the cup.)
5. Current best place to get plastic canvas: Plastic Canvas Supplies - Find it all at Everything Plastic Canvas!
6. Surges are not recommended for scrubbers, because (1) the have not shown to improve operations, (2) they are hard to diy, (2) they are noisy/messy, and (4) they reduce the filtering contact time with the water.
7. Cleaning: If your screen goes up into the pipe, you can clean the screen extra good in that area, so that less algae will grow up into the pipe.
8. Purple growth: If your screen is new, and you are getting thin purple growth in spots, it is probably cyano because of weak lighting. If your screen is 3 months old or more, and you start getting purple growth, feel it. If it's is furry, then it's turf. If it's not furry, then it cyano.
9. Never run the lighting 24/7.
10. Cyano in display: Sometimes, after an algae scrubber has removed most of the nuisance algae in a tank, cyano will grow a bit more. This is normal, because cyano does not eat the same thing that nuisance algae does (thus, the cyano now has less competition). But the cyano will reduce too eventually. The cyano occurs because it has the capability of getting nitrogen directly from the water, without needing Nitrate, Nitrate or Ammonia/Ammonium (which is what algae gets nitrogen from). But as the scrubber continues to filter, the cyano will have a harder and harder time holding on.
11. Why "polished" water is bad: The "clean" water look you get with a skimmer and other mechanical filters is because the food (i.e, waste "protein") has been removed from the water. This is what you want if you have just large fish. But if you want a "real" natural reef, you don't want to do this. Go diving some time and look at the water on a natural reef; there are millions of specks and dots and particles and things floating in the water in a super thick soup. And that's just six inches in front of your face. These things are what feed everything, including small fish.
1. Change CFL or T5 bulbs every THREE MONTHS!
2. Wattage recommendation: 0.5 Watts per gallon for medium filtering. 1.0 for high filtering.
3. CFL bulbs: 55W is the max that works good. If you need more watts, get two or three smaller ones, or go to T5HO (best)
4. Skimmer overflow: Be careful of your skimmer overflowing (if it does not have an overflow tube.) The rotting food in the skimmer cups has been growing bacteria, and thus producing ammonia, so if it overflows into your sump, the ammonia can kill things. If this happens, then a scrubber removes this ammonia from the water (skimmers do not remove ammonia; they only make ammonia in the cup.)
5. Current best place to get plastic canvas: Plastic Canvas Supplies - Find it all at Everything Plastic Canvas!
6. Surges are not recommended for scrubbers, because (1) the have not shown to improve operations, (2) they are hard to diy, (2) they are noisy/messy, and (4) they reduce the filtering contact time with the water.
7. Cleaning: If your screen goes up into the pipe, you can clean the screen extra good in that area, so that less algae will grow up into the pipe.
8. Purple growth: If your screen is new, and you are getting thin purple growth in spots, it is probably cyano because of weak lighting. If your screen is 3 months old or more, and you start getting purple growth, feel it. If it's is furry, then it's turf. If it's not furry, then it cyano.
9. Never run the lighting 24/7.
10. Cyano in display: Sometimes, after an algae scrubber has removed most of the nuisance algae in a tank, cyano will grow a bit more. This is normal, because cyano does not eat the same thing that nuisance algae does (thus, the cyano now has less competition). But the cyano will reduce too eventually. The cyano occurs because it has the capability of getting nitrogen directly from the water, without needing Nitrate, Nitrate or Ammonia/Ammonium (which is what algae gets nitrogen from). But as the scrubber continues to filter, the cyano will have a harder and harder time holding on.
11. Why "polished" water is bad: The "clean" water look you get with a skimmer and other mechanical filters is because the food (i.e, waste "protein") has been removed from the water. This is what you want if you have just large fish. But if you want a "real" natural reef, you don't want to do this. Go diving some time and look at the water on a natural reef; there are millions of specks and dots and particles and things floating in the water in a super thick soup. And that's just six inches in front of your face. These things are what feed everything, including small fish.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Success Updates:
Jason1 on the RS site: "I have to tell you, this thing works great. My tank is definitely showing signs of improvement and looks really cleaned up from what it used to. Thank you."
Danno.Thomas on the SWF site: "Have mine up and functional on a 30 gal, that was just changed over from a 20 gal, had zero new algae growth in the DT. Scrubber is working like magic. Small feather dusters abundant. 6 years in the hobby and my tank has never looked more alive. This is my exclusive filtration."
Troythegreat on the 3R site: "i personally think that scrubbers are a Godsend to reefers. IMO scrubbers work much better than skimmers at 1/10th the cost, all you need is a little discipline. I've had my scrubber running on my 75gal for about 7 months without any trace of nitrates or phosphates. I have 2 clowns, 4 damsels and a engineer goby plus many coral. i feed my coral once a day and my fish twice a day.........i clean the scrubber every 5 days and change carbon once a month."
Chadjwil on the scrubber site: "I've been running an algae scrubber on my 55 [for 7 months]. That tank has never had a skimmer or canister or any other filtration in it, ATS since birth! I'm totally loving it, and...due to space restrictions in the stand ... my screen is undersized, and until last week it was under-lit (bare minimum now), and it's still keeping that tank clean and nutrient free. My fish are so healthy looking, more so than all but the best of the LFS within 50 miles, and my shrimpies molt like mad. I used to be a little leary about telling people that I ran an ATS because of all the sideways looks and comments that I got (and I'm sure my wife thought I was crazy too), but over the last few months more and more people have been commenting on how nice our tank looks, and that theirs was full of algae and a pain to clean all the time, we must spend all our time cleaning and screwing with it...now I get a lot of satisfaction telling them that I spend 5 minutes scraping algae off a plastic tank divider every week or so and I'm done. True believer here."
Jason1 on the RS site: "I have to tell you, this thing works great. My tank is definitely showing signs of improvement and looks really cleaned up from what it used to. Thank you."
Danno.Thomas on the SWF site: "Have mine up and functional on a 30 gal, that was just changed over from a 20 gal, had zero new algae growth in the DT. Scrubber is working like magic. Small feather dusters abundant. 6 years in the hobby and my tank has never looked more alive. This is my exclusive filtration."
Troythegreat on the 3R site: "i personally think that scrubbers are a Godsend to reefers. IMO scrubbers work much better than skimmers at 1/10th the cost, all you need is a little discipline. I've had my scrubber running on my 75gal for about 7 months without any trace of nitrates or phosphates. I have 2 clowns, 4 damsels and a engineer goby plus many coral. i feed my coral once a day and my fish twice a day.........i clean the scrubber every 5 days and change carbon once a month."
Chadjwil on the scrubber site: "I've been running an algae scrubber on my 55 [for 7 months]. That tank has never had a skimmer or canister or any other filtration in it, ATS since birth! I'm totally loving it, and...due to space restrictions in the stand ... my screen is undersized, and until last week it was under-lit (bare minimum now), and it's still keeping that tank clean and nutrient free. My fish are so healthy looking, more so than all but the best of the LFS within 50 miles, and my shrimpies molt like mad. I used to be a little leary about telling people that I ran an ATS because of all the sideways looks and comments that I got (and I'm sure my wife thought I was crazy too), but over the last few months more and more people have been commenting on how nice our tank looks, and that theirs was full of algae and a pain to clean all the time, we must spend all our time cleaning and screwing with it...now I get a lot of satisfaction telling them that I spend 5 minutes scraping algae off a plastic tank divider every week or so and I'm done. True believer here."
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Update: Deep-Sump Nano's
There are two types of nano's: The one that has a hatch on the top, so you don't have to open the whole lid to get to the filters, and the one without a hatch, where you do have to open the lid. It's this second one (with a deep "sump"), that is the most difficult to put a scrubber into. Indeed, if at all possible, you want to instead make an external scrubber, that sits above the tank:
You can enclose the scrubber with a box, or just use the lid of the bucket, to keep the light in. And actually, since nano's need such small screens, you could just use a coffee can, with the lid, which will block out all light once sealed. Decorate the can like a vase, and it will add to your decor. And use black tubing too so it looks nice. It doesn't need air flow, unless you want evaporation and cooling. Regardless, if you do this design, make sure to use "aquarium-safe" silicon on all electrical connection inside the bucket (including where the bulb screws in), because water and salt will build and short it out.
If, however, there is no possible way to put a scrubber above your nano, then you can install one in the "sump" area if you are good at DIY. It's a tight fit, but it can be done:
Riaanp on the MASA site did this:
And Nitschke65 on the SWF site did this:
The idea is to use one of the compartments (probably the middle one) for a waterfall area. For lighting, although Riaanp put the light inside, it's probably best to put the light on the outside (back) of the tank, and scrub off the paint on the backside so that the light can get through to the scrubber screen. The bulb only needs to be one watt for every gallon, so a 13 or 18 watts CFL 3000K is fine.
Fortunately you don't need much screen size for a nano... just 2 square inches (6.25 square cm) for every U.S. gallon (3.8 liters), because the screen is one-sided.
This type of setup is nice because it does not require any cutting of the sump walls, and thus can be converted back easily. Also, there is no real cost... just the screen (2 layers of roughed-up plastic canvas, about $1 USD), and the bulb and socket, probably $7.
There are two types of nano's: The one that has a hatch on the top, so you don't have to open the whole lid to get to the filters, and the one without a hatch, where you do have to open the lid. It's this second one (with a deep "sump"), that is the most difficult to put a scrubber into. Indeed, if at all possible, you want to instead make an external scrubber, that sits above the tank:
You can enclose the scrubber with a box, or just use the lid of the bucket, to keep the light in. And actually, since nano's need such small screens, you could just use a coffee can, with the lid, which will block out all light once sealed. Decorate the can like a vase, and it will add to your decor. And use black tubing too so it looks nice. It doesn't need air flow, unless you want evaporation and cooling. Regardless, if you do this design, make sure to use "aquarium-safe" silicon on all electrical connection inside the bucket (including where the bulb screws in), because water and salt will build and short it out.
If, however, there is no possible way to put a scrubber above your nano, then you can install one in the "sump" area if you are good at DIY. It's a tight fit, but it can be done:
Riaanp on the MASA site did this:
And Nitschke65 on the SWF site did this:
The idea is to use one of the compartments (probably the middle one) for a waterfall area. For lighting, although Riaanp put the light inside, it's probably best to put the light on the outside (back) of the tank, and scrub off the paint on the backside so that the light can get through to the scrubber screen. The bulb only needs to be one watt for every gallon, so a 13 or 18 watts CFL 3000K is fine.
Fortunately you don't need much screen size for a nano... just 2 square inches (6.25 square cm) for every U.S. gallon (3.8 liters), because the screen is one-sided.
This type of setup is nice because it does not require any cutting of the sump walls, and thus can be converted back easily. Also, there is no real cost... just the screen (2 layers of roughed-up plastic canvas, about $1 USD), and the bulb and socket, probably $7.
