Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[bjohanson1234]

Ok the question I have and it hasnt been answered is why a FW cleaning????
Couldnt I just clean it in the bucket of old salt water from my weekly water change?

I am about 90% done building my under hood algea scrubber just need to find time to do the plumbing and need to get a ballast to get the lights running. Just wanted to see what the thought of the FW cleaning is. I know my wife wouldnt like for me to be scrapping a bunch of algea into the kitchen sink.

Brian

 

[dcantucson]

Don't see why you couldn't use saltwater. It's just more convenient to take it to the sink for cleaning. And since it's not a sponge or a porous material it's not going to transfer tap water into your system. At least that's what I'm understanding.

 

[Kwater]

Sorry but to go off topic what are all of those hard plastic pipes. I don't have any of those. They are all rubber and just come from the protine skimmer and pokey reactor and stuff. So just wondering what are all the hard tubes fore. Thanx

 

[bjohanson1234]

Some people (me included) do all there plumbing in PVC. It is a personal prefferance since I think it looks alot better. Also it is really inexpensive to do. A 10 foot stick of 1/2" PVC is less than 2 bucks and the fitting 90's, 45's and T's are around 20 cents a peice.

Brian

 

[Wes888]

20 cents?!!! I want to move to IL! lol

Most of those fittings are around $0.4-$1. The PVC pipes are just a few dollars for a 10 footer.

 

[bigploch]

Ok the question I have and it hasnt been answered is why a FW cleaning????
Couldnt I just clean it in the bucket of old salt water from my weekly water change?

I am about 90% done building my under hood algea scrubber just need to find time to do the plumbing and need to get a ballast to get the lights running. Just wanted to see what the thought of the FW cleaning is. I know my wife wouldnt like for me to be scrapping a bunch of algea into the kitchen sink.

Brian

Here is SM's answer to your freshwater question from his FAQ...

Q: Why do I want to clean my screens with freshwater? Don't I want to keep as many pods as possible?
A: Don't worry, you'll have endless pods. Microscopic pods grow so fast in the algae (by the millions each day), that they start eating the layers underneath. This releases nitrate and phosphate back into the water. Sometimes if the algae is not too thick, the pods will eat big holes in the algae that you'll see on the screen. This is not good. By cleaning the screen weekly in freshwater in the sink, the pods will be removed, and excess nitrate and phosphate will not be released into the tank. But the next day there will be millions more.

There is TONS of good info there. Check it out.... Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ 3.5 (6/1/09)

 

[dcantucson]

That's a good site, bigploch.

 

[bjohanson1234]

Here is SM's answer to your freshwater question from his FAQ...

Q: Why do I want to clean my screens with freshwater? Don't I want to keep as many pods as possible?
A: Don't worry, you'll have endless pods. Microscopic pods grow so fast in the algae (by the millions each day), that they start eating the layers underneath. This releases nitrate and phosphate back into the water. Sometimes if the algae is not too thick, the pods will eat big holes in the algae that you'll see on the screen. This is not good. By cleaning the screen weekly in freshwater in the sink, the pods will be removed, and excess nitrate and phosphate will not be released into the tank. But the next day there will be millions more.

There is TONS of good info there. Check it out.... Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ 3.5 (6/1/09)

Yes but wouldnt washing the scrubber in the used salt water also remove the pods? I guess I just dont see the benefit of using fresh water. Like I said my wife wouldnt like me to be washing this in the kitchen sink

Brian

 

[Wes888]

lol. My wife doesn't like any of my fish stuff get near the kitchen.

 

[Wes888]

Yes but wouldnt washing the scrubber in the used salt water also remove the pods? I guess I just dont see the benefit of using fresh water. Like I said my wife wouldnt like me to be washing this in the kitchen sink

Brian

It's from the Algae Scrubbers site:

Q: After I clean my screen, I get a "spike" in nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) for a day or so until the screen starts to grow again. What can I do to stop this?
A: You can clean half of the screen each time. You still want to take the whole screen to the sink (because it needs fresh water to kill the pods), but just clean the algae off of half of it. The easiest way to do this is to have two smaller screens, and take one of them to the sink every 5 days for cleaning, instead of 7. This way, the other screen only has to wait 10 days before it's trip to the sink (10 days is about the max time that a screen can go without fresh water to kill the pods.)

 

[bjohanson1234]

its amazing how well it sticks out when it is in red:mrgreen:

So I will just have to get a bucket of fresh water over there during weekly waterchanges

Thanks

 

[Wes888]

lol. i remember reading it as well. Took me awhile to find that note from his site.

 

[SantaMonica]

The growing algae is what is using up the nitrates and phosphates so they aren't getting into your display. SM please correct me if I am wrong.

Correct

what are your experiences regarding an algae scrubber vs. a refugium with macro algae?

See here: Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Scrubbers vs. Refugiums

By the end of the first week, the entire sheet had just some slight color. After 8 days or so, it started blooming. I guess because the sheet was seeded.

It was because the algae has something to grab on to (other algae).

Just wanted to see what the thought of the FW cleaning is. I know my wife wouldnt like for me to be scrapping a bunch of algea into the kitchen sink.

First: The reason you want to kill pods with FW weekly, is that they multiply so fast in a scrubber that they eat a tremendous amount of the algae, and thus the nitrate and phosphate are released back into the water. And the pods tend to grow in colonies underneath the algae, where there is less light, and where you can't see them or the effects. So while you may be thinking that your scrubber is doing good because it's growing lots of new algae on the outside, the inside layers are disolving and removing the benefits. Easy fix: Wash the whole screen in FW weekly, even if you are actually only cleaning half of the screen. Sometimes, if your algae is only a thin layer, you'll actually see holes on some parts of the screen. That's the pods. Anytime you see holes, it's time for a FW rinse even if it has not been a full week. By the way, you don't even need to remove your screen to apply the FW; just turn off the flow to the screen, and pour RODI (or distilled) over it. Not only will this kill the pods, but the pods will flow down into your tank to be eaten. Win win. Don't worry about the pods; there will be millions more by the next day; there will be swarms throughout the tank, more than you've ever had, as long as you don't have a skimmer or any other type of mechanical filter to remove them (floss, foam, etc).

Second: Don't ever clean your screen while it's in the tank. The broken pieces of algae will flow into the water, adding nitrate, phosphate, and green color to the water, totally defeating the purpose of the scrubber. If you cannot design a scrubber where the screen is remove for cleaning, do not build one.

Yes but wouldnt washing the scrubber in the used salt water also remove the pods?

No. Remember, they are already being "washed" in SW from the flow. Yet they remain and grow.

 

[Zissou]

So do you think this would work? The algae scrubbers will be turned lengthwise in the sump, and a lamp will be mounted on each side, for a total of four lamps. I have to admit, this whole thing seems kind of iffy to me. With no bubble traps, won't there be a microbubble problem, even with the scrubbers dipping into the water? I also don't like the idea of having four lights down there, when a refugium would only require one. Is two scrubbers overkill, and if it is, what should I do with the other overflow dump?

Before I was thinking of having the sump seperated into the typical three compartments, with a skimmer in the overflow compartment, the return pump in the middle compartment, and a refugium in the third compartment.

I'll also be using RO/DI water, and one or two vortech powerheads for more circulation.

 

[SantaMonica]

It will work fine, if built right. Others have built this already too. Look in the example pics.

With no bubble traps, won't there be a microbubble problem, even with the scrubbers dipping into the water?

Not if adjusted. Put a valve on the return if you need to. Also if needed, a mini-divider that is one-inch off the bottom of the sump, on both sides of the return pump.

I also don't like the idea of having four lights down there, when a refugium would only require one.

With a fuge you would still need a skimmer and other filters.

Is two scrubbers overkill, and if it is, what should I do with the other overflow dump?

You don't "need" two screens and four bulbs. This is just for redundancy, which is a good idea for expensive livestock. It's not really for extra filtering, although it does provide that as long as each screen has good flow and lighting. Without redundancy, it's much smaller. Also, your design might be the cheapest, but it's the biggest and bulkiest DIY setup. My acrylic scrubber is only 6" tall, and the sump is empty:

And it was only $100 at the acrylic shop. You designed a setup with redundant lights and screens; if a bulb goes out, you are fine. If you clean or mess up one screen, the other screen is still providing filtering. However, if you want true redundancy, then you need redundant flow too. With your design, if you forget to turn your return pump back on, you are not fine. You could put it on a timer so it always comes back on, but true redundancy would require one screen to operate off of a pump instead of the overflow.

A simple setup would just be a single 12 X 12 screen, with a floodlight on each side, using a single overflow. And you still have redundant lights.

 

[SantaMonica]

Update: Screens that are too small

This is an example of why a too-small screen can cause problems. The algae gets thick too quick, and the bottom layers die and go back into the water, causing cloudiness and lack of filtering. If you must use a too-small screen, clean it every 3 days instead of 7.

Click here if you can't see pic below

 

[Zissou]

Yeah you're right, I'm overthinking it. I only have the 55 since I was going to use it as a sump/refuge in my previous plan. Hmm...back to the drawing board...

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Zissou]

Ok so I'm overthinking it some more, but I like this idea because it directs *all* of the water from both overflows to go over the scrubber, and provides a large additional refugium area if I want to use it. This solves my problem of what to do with the second overflow, because I didn't like the idea of any overflow water going back into the tank 'unprocessed'. The scrubber mat will be easy to remove, resting on a piece of glass or acrylic so that no water passes through, and a long aquarium light can shine right over it. I put a bubble trap in the diagram, but it's kind of pointless I think, now that I look at it.

Oh, and the end of the scrubber will be underwater by an inch or two.

What do you think? (btw it's not to scale, lol)

 

[Zissou]

There won't be that much egg crate either, just two pieces holding it up at each end, and then I'll be able to get in there and clean without any issues. :bounce:

 

[SantaMonica]

Several things...

1. A slanted screen like that is only one-sided, and thus needs twice the area.

2. Don't worry about "unprocessed" water. Worry about lighting, flow, size, cleanings.

3. A long aquarium bulb will not be enough, especially for single-sided scrubbers which are weak in the first place. You'll want two 23W CFL 3000K floodlight bulbs, each just 4" from the screen.

4. Get as much flow as possible over the screen.

5. Use two or three layers of plastic canvas, roughed up on all sides with a hole saw in your hand.


Your design will work, with a 2X screen, strong lights, and 7-day cleanings.