Lighting Debate

[Paligues]

Listen guys. I appreciate all the attention this thread has gotten, and no I'm not running scared. I work midnights and I appologize about not getting on here sooner to post my responce to all these amazing stories that have come up. I honestly thought that you guys were better than that! But as far as I am concerned, this is nothing personal. As I said, the people on here have helped me along the way an amazing amount. Biff, Dcan, sens, PRC, yote (just to name a few) have helped me leaps and bounds through the saltwater experiance. For that, I will never be able to thank you all enough!

Now onto these lovely people who seem so amazingly obsessed with this 23 years; Yes, it is my father in law's tank. He was the one who started me on this lovely addiction that we all seem to be a part of. He has been saltwater reefing for 30+ years. So thank you very much Pirate and I appreciate the support from the rest of you who took the time to read the post before taking up your pitchforks and torches.

The thing that is boggling my mind is how can you come at me before knowing the whole story. Like I said in the original post, "Given that there is nothing amazingly exotic". Well, lets get really specific here. There are two kinds of Zoas (counting as one species), several types of mushrooms, kenya trees, GSP (green stars), a toadstool, xenia, sun corals, and several types of leathers. As for the anenomes there are two carpets and one pink tip anenome.

If its pictures you want, I am more than able to supply them when I get my new camera (next week). I will not be changing my lighting by then and nor will I do anything different from what I have currently been doing. You will see the corals as is and the lighting system as is.

As far as I'm concerned though, for someone who shows up on the scene with a different opinion, its just sad for you all to go ape and try to fight a battle that was never there to begin with. I put the word 'Debate' in the title of the thread for a reason. Two sides, one story.

 

[14 gallon nanocube]

Thank you 14 gallon Nanocube. I have seen several posts where newbies have been made fun of and actually called stupid. There have been times I have wanted to post a question but didn't because I was afraid the question might be considered dumb. So please remember experts, alot of us come here for advise not ridicule.

You are welcome nanna A forum like this should be a place for advice and guidance.I look forward to helping those that want to learn.I myself unfortunately have torn into a few people who display outright ignorance for the care of the corals and critters.but i try to be open to anything after all we are all using different formulas to get to the same end.first and foremost learn how to take care of the water and the rest is easy. Happy tanks to ya

 

[Bifferwine]

I actually thought my response was quite nice and friendly. :dunno:

 

[Bifferwine]

The thing that is boggling my mind is how can you come at me before knowing the whole story. Like I said in the original post, "Given that there is nothing amazingly exotic". Well, lets get really specific here. There are two kinds of Zoas (counting as one species), several types of mushrooms, kenya trees, GSP (green stars), a toadstool, xenia, sun corals, and several types of leathers. As for the anenomes there are two carpets and one pink tip anenome.

I asked which corals you were keeping -- the corals you listed are all low light or non photosynthetic. They are all softies. You have no LPS or SPS in your tank. I think it would be extremely difficult for you to keep anything but softies. Perhaps that is the secret to your success. Even though I have not been able to keep even softies with less than 2 wpg, maybe you can.

I don't think it's a good idea to tell newbies that "it can be done" with such lighting because they will be so restricted in corals. No one wants to buy lights twice. If you tell someone, "It can be done with 1 wpg!" they will eventually want a frogspawn or hammer or bubble coral (or a clam or whatever), and they will have to pay for a second set of lights. Why not just save money and get good lights the first time around, ones that will let you keep what you want down the road?

I don't think there are too many people that would be satisfied keeping only softies or non photosynthetics. Yes, it can be done with low light, but you won't be able to keep 99% of corals with them.

As for the nems, well you got me there. If they are fed enough, they can survive, but without high lighting they tend to lose their zooxanthellae and fade away gradually. Like I said before, they may be hanging in there, but not flourishing.

I think it call comes down to what, on average, ensures the greatest amount of success? Having good lighting (MH or T5) eliminates lack of light as a source of problems. That way if you do have problems with corals, you can focus on other issues, and can safely rule out a lighting problem.

Also, just because you, one person are successful, doesn't mean that other people will have the same chances of success. Christian jumped off the edge of a 4 story building and landed foot first. He survived, but was severely injured. Most people probably would have been killed. Because Christian survived, doesn't mean it's okay to go around telling people "It's really okay to jump of 4 story buildings. I know a guy who did it and he was fine."

See what I'm saying? There are anomalies and outliers all around us. I think it's important to give newbies the advice that works for MOST people. For my tank, I do water changes maybe 3 or 4 times a year. I don't use a protein skimmer. My tank is super low maintenance, and it works. For some reason, my tank looks great -- not a stitch of algae in sight. But I don't give newbies that advice. I would never tell them to skip water changes or pass on a skimmer. Because I know my system wouldn't work for 99% of tanks. Their stuff would die. It works for me, but my tank is an anomaly.

 

[14 gallon nanocube]

It was biff thanks for keeping it real
ninja'd by biff again I just think there were a few over the top replies

 

[Jmck]

I agree with what biff said, but with one other point. If you choose to start a debate out of the norm which may confuse some, provide more detailed original posts. We have seen a lot of people on here claim many things and it turned out to be false.

Simply put, if I ran my tank with your level of lights, my 4 clams would die, all my lps would die, my monti would die, my sps would die, and I would be left with a dead tank because when one dies, a chain reaction occurs killing everything else. So, I dont really planning on running my tank that low. And so you know, I have LED's with a high output, because I focused on providing the best Growing environment. The sun is not low watts so why should our tanks be?

 

[wontonflip]

Well, the first 5 responses were not going "tang police" on him. They were doing exactly what the title states: LIghting debate. I saw no malice in any of the first 5 posts at all. No one blatantly said "You're wrong!" They stated their side of things, and said specifically that if his in law's nem is still alive, it's luck. I think they went out of their way to specifically call out BS. That was later in the thread. Even if you try to find malice in biff's reply, I don't see how her tone could be mistaken for anything but point for point thoughts on it. Sorry, Zissou, but you did throw the first punch ;) Time out for you!

Get back to the debate people! You DID ask for one, right Pal? :) With every debate comes sides of a situation that not everyone will agree with. Carry on!

 

[dartmyth]

more than likely the t8 lights that his farther inlaw is using are using vho bulbs and not ones you get from lowes or other hardware stores for shop lights

 

[PRC]

Thank you 14 gallon Nanocube. I have seen several posts where newbies have been made fun of and actually called stupid. There have been times I have wanted to post a question but didn't because I was afraid the question might be considered dumb. So please remember experts, alot of us come here for advise not ridicule.

Nanna, my approximate post count per day on this forum is 9 per day. I spend hours per day on this forum (I'm not proud...it's just a fact :D) I've never seen a newbie get made fun of, or called stupid...

However, I have seen and written posts where people get called onto the carpet for poor choices and decisions that they've made. But all of these people know better, they just don't care.

I've never seen a person who is just learning, who has legitimately asked a question or made a mistake get yelled at. But in all reality, alot of people don't post until they've done something wrong. They knew it was wrong when they picked it up at the store, when they put it in the tank, and then they act surprised when it dies....

That's when people get agitated.

Understand, that some of us spend so much time on this site, that if a person asks a question about a dying fish, we'll remember the question that he asked 3 days before about his tank cycling, and how 5 different people told him exactly what to do, but he didn't listen. He goes out buys a fish, and then posts when it's just about dead.

If I had a nickel for everytime that's happened since I've been a member I'd be the major share holder in SeaWorld.

What I'm trying to get at is....if you have questions ask it, you're never going to get yelled at. But when you get solid advice, don't disregard it.

 

[Nanna]

PRC, thank you for your comments. I know you guys try to help us newbies as much as you can and I know it must get very frustrating when we all make the same mistakes over and over again even though you've told us "don't do that". As a newbie, I also know how confusing it can get with so much information at our finger tips. For example, lighting...I've read anywhere from 3 - 8 watts per gallon is best for a reef. I've learned buy the best lights you can afford to buy, then do your research and don't buy anything that can't live without more. So there really isn't one ultimate answer to how many watts per gallon do I need to have.
Unfortunalty though, I have read posts where the newbie has been made fun of or called stupid or crazy. I hope it's not done on purpose but just out of frustration. If you would like to, contact me and I will be happy to direct you to the actual posts I've seen. Thank all of you for the wealth of information you have shared. Now I need to go to "New to Reefing" so ask a question.