S.O.S. quarantine tank?

[dannyboy]

Ok, this spiny box fish which most likely will die like the other is starting to show white spots on it's fins. We called the lfs we got it from and they said sounds like ick. They said to quarantine it asap and start medicating it. What is considered a quarantine tank? I have a 20 gallon tank with uncycled water I use for water changes, thats all I have. What should I do? I know the fish was at the store a good 3 weeks and looked fine there. The other 2 fish in my tank don't have these spots.
Thanks

 

[Bifferwine]

A quarantine tank is just a tank separate from your main system. Your 20 gallon tank will work fine, and if I were you, I'd take old water from your existing tank, put that in the 20 gallon tank, and put the new water in your display tank (so that the old water in the quarantine tank will contain some bacteria). You'll need a heater and a powerhead for circulation in the tank. Don't add any live rock or sand, but a piece of PVC is fine to give the fish somewhere to hide.

Copper is the only effective medication for ich, so you can treat the fish with copper. But if/when the fish recovers, you should clean the tank out very well before using it again to store your new water, as any trace of copper in your water will kill the inverts in your tank.

If you choose not to medicate the fish and leave it in the tank, there is a chance it will recover on its own, however boxfish are not hardy at all, so that's a very slim chance. If you want to go this route, soak the fish's food in garlic extract and vitamins (like Selcon) to boost its immune system and help fight off the disease.

 

[dannyboy]

If the box fish has ick, is it safe to assume my other fish do too? Can my trigger or goby have it and show no signs because the box fish looked fine till we got him home for under a week, prob 5 days now. The trigger has a white spot on his eye and I've seen him slam that eye against rocks, any thought on that? HELLLLLLLP......

 

[Bifferwine]

If your boxfish has it, then your other fish are probably carrying the parasite too. But fish can carry the parasite and still act/be healthy. The parasite will manifest itself and show symptoms if the fish become stressed, unhappy or unhealthy. The vast majority of fish will come carrying ich unless you treat them with copper before adding them to your tank, which few people do.

If the trigger has a white spot, that could be ich too. Triggers are pretty tough and can usually fight it off on their own.

 

[dannyboy]

So if i medicate the box fish and put him back in the main tank, he'll prob catch it again? So I would need to medicate the 3 fish? And if I were to do that, can the parasites remain in the main tank even with no fish so when I put all 3 back in the catch it again? The store the box fish came from seems very good,all independent tanks, where as the store the trigger came from......well, all there tanks are tied together and I'll never buy another fish from there again.

 

[cthegame]

Biff has you covered well. There is the chance your fish will getich again if the other fish in the tank have it. Even if they dont show any signs. Best would be to treat all fish. I believe your DT should be fish free for 6 weeks before for its goes thru its cycle.

But from personal experience, ich will come if fish are stressed. Most of them will fight it off but the less hardy fish should be quarantined.

 

[dannyboy]

By 6 weeks, you mean after I remove the 3 fish or in general? The tank has been cycled for 4-5 months, am wondering if I should remove the 3 fish, put them all in a 20 gallon quarantine and medicate them all w/ copper? If I do that, does the DT need to "rest" for 6 weeks for the parasites to be gone?

Also, what is a good brand of medication to use to cure the ick?

Also, ick can come back without the introduction of new fish?

 

[fatman]

There are reports of salt water ich appearing after up to 61 days of no tank habitation. Some people hypo treat in their quartine tanks. A larger percentage of people use copper. Both are quite effectice. Both are stressful. To hypo is to go hyposalinity, meaning lower the salinity way down. Like to 2.10. It is best to quarantine all fish and run tank fallow (without fish) for 6 weeks. You should use a heater, a power head and a biological filter in your quarantine tank if going hypo. Copper would kill a bio filters bacteria so forget bio with copper treatments. A bio filter for a quarantine tank can be a simple sponge filter. Run it in your sump or display tank for a few days before putting it in qurantine tank. Good luck.

 

[Ironman]

unfortunatly your issue isnt an easy issue, it is one almost every hobiest goes through at some point and it is stressful. there have been some good ideas posted here for treatment, I have over the years had little success with treatments do to the overwhelming stress that is involved in the treatment. The number one killer of fish is stress, the ich was brought on by stress and will continue to be a problem as long as there is a stressful enviorment. What ive seen is alot of people pull all there fish out and put them in quarantine which stresses even the fish who werent stressed in the first place. so its a toss up, and I feel every situation is alittle different. I have chosen to keep my water quality as good as possible and when I see a problem with a fish i start feeding more and adding supluments to the food such as garlic, amino acids, and metronidazole. If the tank water is in check then it is up to the fishes immune system to keep him going. what would most likely happen even if he made it through the treatment is the stress of being put back in the tank would probly cause him to lose his slime coat again and your right back where you started. please keep us up to date on what happens

 

[fatman]

So you are appropriately into prevention. Yah, whoopee and all that. He is asking for cure results at this time. Most stress induced ich is brought on by the stresses induced by LFS's, shippers, wholesalers and suppliers. It is nice to hear your doing something at your end for your benefit, but now and his fish is the present issue. He got his fish recently so prevention is worth a pound of cure does not apply here.

 

[RyanG]

Whoa whered the new super-mod come from or are you an old super mod? Pleasure to meet your acquaintance eitherway.

 

[Bifferwine]

Ironman is an old super mod.

 

[kyle]

hes new to me lol

 

[Ironman]

hey guys! Ive been involved in a local club for a year and didnt feel it apropriate to moderate here as well. I have recently found the opertunity to come back here and get involved again. I must say fatmans response wasnt the warm welcome I used to see here on livingreefs but every man his own. Im sorry if me sharing my disease treament affended you fatman, I have always been a believer in the fact that there is no one right way. I always encouraged everyone especially new members to not take on persons advice, but get as many opinions as possible to make an educated aproach. all I could give was 15 years of experience.
Good luck with whatever aproach you go with and please keep us posted as to the results. best of luck

 

[RyanG]

Ironman dont mind Fatman, he our resident grumpy guy, he not a bad guy and hes super knowledgable but hes definately rough around the edges! Hes a decent guy just grumpy is all. Welcome back to the site anyway!

 

[fatman]

Im sorry if me sharing my disease treament affended you fatman, I have always been a believer in the fact that there is no one right way.

I thought you were sharing disease prevention rather than treatment and it was treatment advise that was at issue. I am a man of science and engineering without noticeable social skills, meaning I am tactless, critical, authoritarian and judgemental. Socially I could be called an *sshole. I usually base my replies on science not just experience or what is in vogue, and I am not a people pleaser, nor any ones mother or comforter. I seldom compliment. Just thought this would save you some time in your judgement of me. I almost forgot: I do not like the fields of law, public safety, politics, or mental health. There is seldom just one way, but there is always a best way and a lot of poorer ways. I like best as often as possible.

 

[Ironman]

thanks for your reply fatman, my post was a treatment not a prevention. if you take the time to read it thoroughly. I spent alot of years trying your method which I assume you feel is the only right way based on your post. but based on your profile you posted that you have been involved in local fish store as a manager. So maybe from a situation where you are dealing with new fish that have just arrived from shipping your treament idea would be best. but to tell someone to pull all there healthy stable fish out of there tank and treat them all because someone added a box fish which is going to die anyway seems to be hasty advice, if you indeed have been involved in a store you should know the track record of box fish. my advice was to not stress the stable fish in the tank by pulling them out for treatment. including the box fish because in my experience the treatment stresses them so much they die before you can start the treatment. anyway, I was trying to say that a good diet with some metronidazole as a food soak has worked wanders for me for years without any undo stress to the comunity. I do not feed metronidazole as a preventative it is a treatment, and I am in no way saying a quarantine isnt a good idea, infact it would be less stressful and more prudent to quarantine the fish before it enters the show tank so you dont have the current situation. but a quarantine can work and you can treat and cure fish that way successfully. I tryed to look at the persons exact situation taking into account the fish at hand and situation at hand and gave the advice I would use as if I was in that situation. so I hope since you like thing tackful that this will right up your alley.

back to the posters intent for this thread, so how is the tank doing? and what are you doing so far as a treatment, please keep us up to date with your progress

 

[reeffreak]

Don't mind Fatman,its pretty much if you don't do it his way it's wrong.There's more than one way to skin a cat(sorry for that Biff).

That goes for T5 vs. MH debate,curing/cycling and amongst other things.Besides aren't scientist the worst when it comes to contradiction anyways.

 

[Ironman]

true true! well looking forward to hearing from dannyboy as to how the situation is?

 

[fatman]

I am uncertain (Ironboy) why you would use a drug designed for parasites that live in an anaerobic environment on a parasite living in an aerobic environment. It is designed for Giardia and Thricomonas. I have probably forgotten more than you will ever learn, so think and say what you want but I will continue in my ways doing what I do best. By your advanced age I can tell you were not yet born when I set up my first marine tank, and as for my experiences, hell I probably have nearly as many years advanced education as you have years experience with aquariums. Yes, I have managed and worked in LFS's in the past. Do you have a problem with that? You just do what ever floats your boat. I hope in the future if you address me it is in a private message. I normally ignore ignorance and am never impressed by just one persons experiences when used as a justification for advice being given or defense of advice already given. I prefer science to opinion.