Ich, Ick!

kwsm

kwsm

Reefing newb
Brought home two Percula Clownfish earlier in the week, looked nice and clean and ate at the LFS. Looking at them just now, one has developed several small white spots. From my freshwater experience, it looks like Ich. However my knowledge about the marine variety is extremely limited. She's still eating fine and seems alright but I know how fast Ich can kill a fish. I don't have a quarantine setup nor the available resources to get one as fast as this little guy should need it. The other two fish are spotless for the moment.

I know that with corals/inverts and whatnot that you can't use traditional methods of treating the tank.

In my 55g tank I have assorted live rock, one blue damsel, the two perculas, a turbo snail, and three hermit crabs.

What else can I do to save my fish? How can I prevent it in the future?
 
Ok so after an extremely late night run around town trying to find things to set up a quarantine tank, I ended up with a 10g tank with a heater and a small HOB filter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/AtariatriX/sickclown.jpg

I'm scared of being wrong that it's marine ich so I took a picture hoping that one of you could confirm.


I'm fairly confident I spotted it within hours of it becoming visible so hoping I caught it in time. Neither clown is breathing heavy or acting off, but the smaller of the two has started rubbing himself on the rocks. I assume the parasites are itchy. :(


So now I have this setup for a quarantine tank but I'm unsure which would be the best method to treat it. Hyposalinity or medication? Does the quarantine tank have to have its own bacterial colony for the fish to survive? Because right now I'm obviously faced with having to start a fresh one with sick fish and I certainly don't want to condemn them.


Any advice at all would be extremely helpful. I don't want something so common to scare me away from reefing forever but I stress easy, just like my fish. :x


Also I guess this is a blessing in disguise as I will be sure to quarantine all future fish BEFORE putting them in the display tank.
 
That looks like ich.

If the fish is eating and not showig sings of stress (i,e, breathing fast, hiding in a cave not coming out, hard time keeping equilibrium, etc.) then i would leave it alone as it has a great chance of survival.

If its starting to show signs of stress and not eating, i would remove it, give it a fresh water dip for immediate relief and quarantine in copper (follow the instructions of the medication). If you are going to quarantine, its going to need to stay in there for at least 4-6 weeks so you will need a powerheard, a basic hang on filter (remove the carbon and only use the filter pad), a heater, and some kind of light. Use water from your DT for the QT and do frequent 10% water changes (at least once a week, x2 per week recommended).

Just curious but what is your water readings?

Good luck and keep us updated
 
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Most of your fish believe it or not will come with some ich unless your LFS quarantines them. The fish, normally are able to get over the parasite on their own, however your clown seems to be infected pretty heavily, try a copper based solution (I believe), and continue to monitor your DT to make sure that an outbreak doesnt occur.
 
I would do hypo,assuming you have a refractometer?You can use your filter media from your DT for bacterial colonies on your QT,even some LR from your DT.Drop salinity to 1.009-1.008 range.Mine went to 1.007 with no ill effects on the fish.ALL fish will need treated!Leave DT fallow(fishless) for 6-8 weeks..Monitor ammonia and Ph,closely(in QT).I just went thru this ,its not too bad,if you are willing to put the time and effort into it .If you do this ,your DT will no longer have ich!!
QT everything new,... fish ,rock ,coral,inverts ,ect...
Good luck
 
Well this morning we woke up to all of the spots on one clown gone. The other (the one in the picture) is down to a very small amount (maybe 5 or so) on his fins. I know in the life cycle of the parasite, the only stage that you can see them is where they attach to the fish. Does this part of the cycle really last such a short time? Because these spots came and went in less than 12. Or is the fish fighting the infection and it's fine to leave them to it?

Both clowns look happy still this morning and ate voraciously.
 
The spots can come and go pretty quick.I've seen fish that were completely covered when the lights went out,then the next morning there not be a spot on them.

For most fish,both the above methods of treatment will work.
 
+1 Yote.

I'm happy to hear your clowns are feeling better. In my experience ich is a warning sign that there is some water quality problem. If you fix the water quality problem, the ich goes away. It looks like you may have fixed the water problem. :-)
 
If you do decide to quarantine and treat them, keep in mind you will have to treat EVERY fish in the tank, even the fish that aren't showing symptoms. If you only treat the clowns but not the other fish, they will get re-infected as soon as they are put back in the tank.

When one of my fish has shown spots, I've never treated. They have always gotten over it on their own in a day or so.

You can help them out by using a garlic extract additive on their food.
 
Navarchus said:
+1 Yote.

I'm happy to hear your clowns are feeling better. In my experience ich is a warning sign that there is some water quality problem. If you fix the water quality problem, the ich goes away. It looks like you may have fixed the water problem. :-)
Click to expand...

Where does it go??
Once you have ich, you always have ich.Unless you take the proper actions to KILL it.Some here choose to fight it with vitys and garlic,others (myself included) choose to sqiush this little bug into oblivian!Many have had success in fighting it off when it appears,others choose to never see it again.Its up to you,both plans of attack are here for you to make a decision.
Good luck
 
When I say "ich" i mean "ich symptoms." I don't think ich can ever be completely irradicated from our systems.

It is like algae in that way. The spores seem omnipresent, and as soon as your water quality degrades, BOOM, you have yourself an algae problem.

Success in this hobby comes from maintaining high quality water for your animals. Treating individual diseases without improving your water quality is a recipe for constant frustration.
 
Navarchus said:
When I say "ich" i mean "ich symptoms." I don't think ich can ever be completely irradicated from our systems.

It is like algae in that way. The spores seem omnipresent, and as soon as your water quality degrades, BOOM, you have yourself an algae problem.

Success in this hobby comes from maintaining high quality water for your animals. Treating individual diseases without improving your water quality is a recipe for constant frustration.
Click to expand...
Why not?
If you set-up a brand new tank,let it cycle ,get some fish,place everything in a QT first and treat,there is no way ich or anything else gets into your DT(i did this for my 1st 3 years,before an unfortunate incident) .Remember QTing is not just for ich,some nasty hitchhikers from LR can be caught this way also.I do not want to go round and round on this again,but ich does not have to be in our tanks,we can control that if we choose to.I guess i'm throwing wood on the fire again,but i want the OP to know research is key here.Melosu58 always links some great articles,if i knew how i would too...
 
Oh, i wasn't going to reply until I saw my typo. How imbarrasing ;-)

Maybe in a FOWLR tank it is possible, but in my experience with a reef, I have found it extremely difficult to avoid mixing my water with water from the LFS. Drip acclimating inverts that cannot be exposed to the air inevitably leads to some cross contamination. I guess theoretically I could QT all new arrivals for the requisite 9 weeks to avoid any possible contamination.

I always preach that this hobby is about patience....but even I don't have that kind of patience! ;-)

I didn't mean to raise the old "QT v. Non QT" debate. I know the passions run high on both sides. I think I'm relatively safe in saying that high water quality is a good thing though, regardless of whether you QT or not.
 
i think both of you have good points. But it mainly comes down to whether the fish is stressed or not. Its about keeping the fish stress free because whether ich is present or not, a fish can easily fight of ich if not in stress (or at least a great chance of recovery). Ich is more like the end result of a bigger problem...there are many reasons fish get ich, from bad water quality to territory issues to other fish being too aggressive, etc. When you get ich, you know something else is wrong with the fish and ich is the visual sign of stress...so whether a fish will beat ich or not will depend mostly on how strong and stress free it is...happy fish in most cases dont get ich. JMO based on my experience
 
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OP,read and learn, thanks Melosu58:Cheers:
Also,cthegame,wouldn't you rather know that adding a new addition to your tank ,which will be stressful for all other tankmates, will not lead to a possible outbreak?
 
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OhNoNemo said:
OP,read and learn, thanks Melosu58:Cheers:
Also,cthegame,wouldn't you rather know that adding a new addition to your tank ,which will be stressful for all other tankmates, will not lead to a possible outbreak?
Click to expand...


i never had an outbreak on more than just 1 fish at a time...and usually adding a new fish is more stressful to the new fish opposed to it being stressful to the current fish.

You are right tho...i mean it doesnt hurt at all what you are saying...im not disagreeing with you
 
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One of those article was entitled "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." I believe that good water parameters are the "prevention" and copper is "the cure"

so i guess we are all on the same page.
 
Really?I believe the prevention is a QT tank,this is the very first statement the guy makes.......speaking of the title......"I found this statement to be quite poignant(relavent) in its simplicity and accuracy in summarizing the necessity of quarantining animals in the reef aquarium hobby; or, better yet, the folly of not using a quarantine tank. ",and here is another "If this parasite is never introduced into a tank, then susceptible animals can never get infected. All the stress in the world cannot make a parasite magically appear out of nowhere".
Yes good water is important ,i know,but this particular article speaks of QTing not water quality.
These are great informative reads,we all should read them,or at least skim to the bottom where he breaks it down for you....lol
I learned alot more than what i thought i knew,before reading them.
 
Again, I am not against QT tanks--just like you are not against water quality. As far as ich is concerned, these are two effective ways to tackle the same problem.
 

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