Enjoy em while you can

[Bifferwine]

Ummm okay then. As a member of the animal rights community, and a conservation biologist by education and profession, I'd like to ask you WHERE? Where is your proof of all these things you're saying? I've never come across people that think keeping aquariums should be illegal, and I live in those circles!

You say:
I'm not saying there are lots of people out there, but they exist.

There are still people out there that believe that whites are superior to blacks. There are still people out there that believe the Earth is less than 4,000 years old. There are still people out there that believe there is an alien spaceship hidden behind comets and the only way to go to their home is to leave their earthly bodies in mass suicides. There are people out there that believe that rocks are living, sentient beings and deserve to be treated as such. There are people that believe that Elvis is alive. There are people that believe that playing rock music will turn your children into the devil. There are people that believe it's okay to have fifteen wives. I'm not saying there are lots of people out there, but they exist.

So what? LOTS of nuts exist! Do those people pose a threat at all to rational thought? No! So why worry about them? To actually seriously say that the very small minority that thinks aquariums should be banned is a threat to the hobby is truly paranoid and irrational.

There may be fringe people that believe that keeping aquariums should be banned, but by no means is there any organized or strong movement against aquariums in this country! Going through the legal avenue of listing a dwindling species as endangered is not going to force you to take down your tank! If you truly would rather see a species go extinct in the wild rather than forego having that animal in your tank, perhaps you should re-evaluate why you are in this hobby in the first place.

 

[Ted]

Hey I like fox news.....Wheres my dam hat......J/K do you people even watch tv anymore. I have reef tanks I dont need tv or crazy people. Chill out yall.

 

[Navarchus]

Biff, I think you are seeing some disagreement between us here that doesn't exist.

 

[Bifferwine]

Maybe I am :)

 

[andysgirl8800]

Biff, were you part of the debate team at any time in your life? :bowdown::mrgreen:

 

[Navarchus]

It just me being a lawyer and parsing words. Hate when I do that. No wonder people hate lawyers.

Wait...do you say Elvis is dead?

;)

 

[mng777777]

Biff, I think you are seeing some disagreement between us here that doesn't exist.

Maybe I am :)

Typicall for PETA! :bounce::bounce::bounce:

 

[Rcpilot]

Everybody hates lawyers but when ya need one - you want the dirtiest, low-down snake in the grass, law bending, playing golf with the judge on Saturday, lawyer that you can find!!

....... when ya need one.

 

[mng777777]

some people fear clowns...

 

[Navarchus]

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've
wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went
to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.

-deep thoughts by jack handy

 

[andysgirl8800]

clowns? did I miss something?

 

[mng777777]

Acutally it seems I did but my how this thread has taken a funny turn...

 

[Bifferwine]

I've never been on a debate team. But NDB has learned after many futile attempts at having his way, that he's better off saving his energy and just agreeing with me, no matter what issue is at hand...

 

[yote]

+1 Navarchus
I'm actually tickled to death to see that endangered corals might get listed and wild harvest made illegal.Weather or not thats gonna cause the price of tank raised corals to skyrocket,who really knows.:dunno:
But I can see it used a fuel for enviromental activiest to start hounding this hobby like do my other hobby.
Plus,the fact of the matter is.Placing endangered corals on that list wont do a bit of good.The only thing that will help is to make it illegal for shrimp boats and fish trawlers to be anywhere close to the reefs.They also need to make it illegal for those yachts to stop dropping anchor on the reefs.

 

[VAreef]

you know reading this the biggest question I have is....Is Biff a vegaterian? Living in Norfolk VA I was only a few miles from a PETA headquarters building. I met many of their members. Most were vegaterian. A very small percentage were actually nutty and would go so far as to say people should not even own a pet.

 

[Bifferwine]

.Placing endangered corals on that list wont do a bit of good.The only thing that will help is to make it illegal for shrimp boats and fish trawlers to be anywhere close to the reefs.

Read my previous post. Shrimp boats and fish trawlers are probably the #1 reason why the coral reefs are being destroyed. Destructive fishing practices are one of the biggest, if not THE biggest cause of coral death. Listing them as endangered and keeping these boats away will make a HUGE difference.

Is Biff a vegaterian?

Yep.

 

[yote]

The question is,WILL the listing keep those boats away from the reef?
I highly doubt it.

 

[Bifferwine]

The Endangered Species Act (and CITES for international species) has been very successful with many animals that have been listed. It's often held up as one of the best-executed pieces of environmental law that has ever been enacted. Even if it's not 100% successful and doesn't keep every boat away, it's much better than nothing. I don't understand why people seem to be so negative about the Endangered Species Act. At work, I frequently get bulletins of species that are being taken OFF the list because their populations have been saved by the protections of the Act, and they are no longer at risk of going extinct. It is actually one of the few pieces of environmental legislation in the US that works very well.

 

[yote]

Oh I'm not being negative about those corals being placed on the endangered species list.Actually far from it.I'm happy that they are being placed there.I just think that more steps need to be taken to stop the real problems out there.Even if it means making that part of the ocean off limits to all human traffic with a 100 mile buffer zone.

 

[Bifferwine]

Oh I totally agree with you there Yote. I think we, as humans, can and should go much farther than we do to protect the other species on this planet -- especially ones that are as sensitive and slow-growing as corals. It takes literally thousands, tens of thousands of years to create a coral reef. It's not like you can harvest corals like you can pick a flower off a bush and a week later there will be a new flower growing off the bush. It's a real shame that more people don't feel an obligation towards protecting such wonderful natural environments.