Can't stabailize my water flows

[andysgirl8800]

I finally have water in my tank and I am attempting to adjust the water flow between my main tank, skimmer, and refugium, without success. I have been tweaking it for the last three days, and can't seem to find the right combination.

I have twin Durso-style standpipe drains, emptying into a seperate bucket in which my mag pump sucks water into my skimmer. The skimmer does its thing, then pumps back into my refugium. My return pump sits at the end of the refugium and pumps back into my tank via two return lines. No matter how tiny or big my adjustments are, I can't get a stable water level. I am either slowly emptying my sump/refugium, or I am close to flooding it. I have to keep turning the entire system off at night because I am too concerned that my system will flood overnight. I am also too worried to leave the house with it running for longer than an hour or so.

Does anyone have any suggestions?? Am I missing something? Thanks.

 

[ccCapt]

Can you post a pic of your sump setup? How many gph is the overflow rated for and what pump do you have?

 

[andysgirl8800]

Thanks for replying. I don't have a rating for my overflows....they are DIY Durso-style standpipes, dual gravity-fed drains. My pump is a "Quiet One 6000". I've attached some pictures of my current setup. The water is still a little cloudy because my sand is still settling.

 

[Bifferwine]

I think the problems is that your skimmer is in a separate container from the rest of the setup, running on its own pump. Using two pumps, there won't ever be a way for you to equalize everything, I think. Is there a way to move the skimmer into the sump and out of the bucket? Otherwise, it's impossible to match the overflows to the skimmer and the return all at the same time.

 

[andysgirl8800]

It's an external skimmer....not an in-sump. it is also too tall to fit under my tank

 

[acerhigh]

just what Bifferwine said.... using two pumps trying to get them to pump equal amounts like that is asking for trouble... you would either need to move the skimmer into the sump..... or drill both the rubbermaid tub and the tank and let the water flow thru the bulkhead from one to the other, eliminating the pump in the tub pumping water into the sump........ (use a pump in the tub only for the skimmer..... if you choose this method...... make sure the bulkhead in both the tub and the sump is bigger than the bulkhead in the overflow) moving the skimmer would probably be far easier....

 

[acerhigh]

It's an external skimmer....not an in-sump. it is also too tall to fit under my tank

then run the returns into the sump and lose the tub altogether..... just put the skimmer pump into the sump to feed the skimmer

 

[andysgirl8800]

Wouldn't that allow the "dirty" water to flow through the sump also?

 

[Bifferwine]

then run the returns into the sump and lose the tub altogether..... just put the skimmer pump into the sump to feed the skimmer

Acer is right on. You can't have the skimmer taking water from one part (the tub) and returning it to a different part (the fuge). You need the pump feeding the skimmer and the return line from the sump in the same place. The way you have it set up, with them in two different places, makes it impossible for your system to be in balance.

 

[Bifferwine]

Wouldn't that allow the "dirty" water to flow through the sump also?

Of course, and that's fine. There is no way to purify 100% of your water. Skimmers aren't supposed to handle the entire gallonage flowing through the sump.

 

[acerhigh]

Wouldn't that allow the "dirty" water to flow through the sump also?

the "dirty water" so to speak is in the collection cup of the skimmer....

 

[Bifferwine]

The skimmer is not supposed to process every bit of water before it goes back into your tank. That's why you are supposed to run the skimmer 24/7. If it's running all the time, it eventually gets around to cleaning the vast majority of the water in your tank (as long as your skimmer is properly rated for your size tank). And Acer is also right in that the gunk gets trapped in the collection cup, for you to remove later. The dirty water that "passes by" the skimmer on the first run through the sump will get picked up the next run through, or the one after that, etc.

Skimmers can't take the same amount of flow as the rest of your system anyways. Water flow through a typical skimmer is supposed to be 1.5 times the volume of your tank per hour. Water flow through a sump is usually at least 10 times the volume of your tank per hour. Water has to flow through a skimmer at slower speed to allow the skimmer to work.

So whether you have an external, in-sump or hang-on-back skimmer, they are all working the same way.

 

[Navarchus]

This sounds like a very frustrating problem. Looks like everyone has you covered though.

As a general rule, never pump any water into your sump. (The only exception is for water changes, and other closely monitored and temporary situations). Water should always fall into your sump, whether it be from your display tank or from your skimmer, or from any other device.

Really, there should only be two containers holding significant quantities of water: your display tank and your sump. Water should fall from your display tank into your sump. Water from the sump should then be returned to your display tank at a slower rate than it falls from the display tank. If your pumps are too powerful, then your display tank will constantly overflow and your sump will empty. (I had a similar experience of not being able to leave the house for fear of overflow when I realized my return pumps returned more water than my overflows could handle. It drove me crazy.) You can more precisely regulate the amount of water your main pumps return to the display tank by using a gate valve in the return pipe.

Second, any water that is pumped out of the sump should return naturally. So if you are pumping water out of your sump into a protein skimmer (or anything else), the water should be pumped out and should return without the need of a second pump. If you pump water out of the sump, and you also pump water into the sump, there will be no way to control the water level in your tank.

Hope this helps. As long as you never pump water into your sump, you will be all set.

 

[andysgirl8800]

Thanks for all of your wonderful advice. I will remove the 3rd water source (the tub) and drain my tank directly into the sump. Hopefully, I can level out my water flow.

 

[Bifferwine]

Good luck! Keep us updated on how it works out.

 

[andysgirl8800]

From my husband....

Those forum people are geniuses!

I took everyone's advice and changed my sump system by draining the tank directly into the sump, skimming (and returning) within the sump, and by installing a "T" junction in the return line of the pump back to the tank. Now, it splits the feed on the right back into the tank, and on the left, back into the first chamber of my sump. This way, I'm not severely dialing down my return pump volume and have (so far) been able to stabalize my water levels.

Thank you everyone!!
:bowdown:

Here are a few pix:

 

[Bifferwine]

Looking good! I'm glad you got it worked out.

 

[andysgirl8800]

Ok, I will reveal my true ignorance here, so, my sincere apologies for the stupidity of this question....I had a stable water level for 6 hours straight. I decided to remove some of the water from my sump to allow a greater amount of room for emergency overflow, if needed. After I took out about 5 gallons, I noticed the levels in my main tank coming down (emptying) back into the sump. To replace the amount I took out??? Is there a pressure balance or something linking the sump and the main tank? It's not making much sense to me, and I was hoping someone could explain. My fluid dynamics is a little rusty.

 

[acerhigh]

Ok, I will reveal my true ignorance here, so, my sincere apologies for the stupidity of this question....I had a stable water level for 6 hours straight. I decided to remove some of the water from my sump to allow a greater amount of room for emergency overflow, if needed. After I took out about 5 gallons, I noticed the levels in my main tank coming down (emptying) back into the sump. To replace the amount I took out??? Is there a pressure balance or something linking the sump and the main tank? It's not making much sense to me, and I was hoping someone could explain. My fluid dynamics is a little rusty.

I fail to see how lowering the water level in your sump would lower the water level in the display tank.... my only thoughts would be if you exposed the ends of the overflows in the sump, there might be less backpressure and water could flow faster thru them..... Or when you were working in the sump, something got into the return pump and restricted the flow....

I'd be curious on this one!

 

[andysgirl8800]

Nope, the ends of the overflows remained below water level. didn't make much sense to me either.