What Not To Do - Newbie Story (long)

[Cathic]

Be aware, if you want there to be responsible vendors, you need LFS's who dont get their jollies off sales, and have interest in the hobby. Most LFS will sale you whatever the consumer is willing to buy. Research most often comes in the form of personal experiences, take this forum for instance, no advice given here is "professional" or "expert" its all collective from what we have learned from first hand experience and others. Those who go to the store should have some reserves from what people tell them. However most take what the LFS say at face value since they have no first hand experience and normally arent connected to a forum or people who are in the hobby.

As a consumer I expect that if i visit an LFS more than 2 or 3 times, when I come in that next time they should remember me. They should remember my wants and my tank. The information I get form them should be based off of experience in what they know and directing me in the right direction. This doesnt happen a majority of the time, but as a consumer why should we lower expectations while expecting the LFS to raise their standards to what we feel is correct if we are willing to settle for less?

 

[ErinCahir]

As a consumer I expect that if i visit an LFS more than 2 or 3 times, when I come in that next time they should remember me. They should remember my wants and my tank. The information I get form them should be based off of experience in what they know and directing me in the right direction. This doesnt happen a majority of the time, but as a consumer why should we lower expectations while expecting the LFS to raise their standards to what we feel is correct if we are willing to settle for less?

Serious +1 to this. I spent upwards of $800 in a certain store one day. Did he remember me when I came in a week later? No. Did he remember me from being in there multiple times for my fresh tanks? No. I was instead told "the pretty fish are saltwater" and when I told him I was in for a clean up crew he looked at me like I was crazy. Then tried to sell me Sally Lightfoots and Chocolate Chip stars after I told him it was a reef tank.

I, luckily, generally know what I'm talking about. However, I now have several freshie customers who have been led seriously astray by this dude. So I've been telling people not to go there... Apparently he heard about that and has started badmouthing ME. For no reason other than I work for a corporation, or because I don't "look like I know what I'm talking about" or even because I'm a girl.

Yes, it is the consumer's job to know what they're getting into, and it is their job to research thoroughly, but a lot of people consider talking to the LFS employees research. It's their job to give a crap about the animals they sell. And when there is a blatant disregard for animal life from either side, it's not okay.

 

[wontonflip]

Serious +1 to this. I spent upwards of $800 in a certain store one day. Did he remember me when I came in a week later? No. Did he remember me from being in there multiple times for my fresh tanks? No. I was instead told "the pretty fish are saltwater" and when I told him I was in for a clean up crew he looked at me like I was crazy.

Maybe if you had worn the same skimpy outfit you wore the last time he'd have remembered you. DUH :shock: :mrgreen:

Almost everyone at my lfs totally knows me by name...it's like being in Cheers :D They knew me well after my 2nd visit there. I even come in and hug one of the girls there cuz I'm such a great customer!

 

[little_fish]

I dont think my lfs knows my name, but they do know my fish. Its a little freaky, but I appreciate it.

 

[ErinCahir]

Maybe if you had worn the same skimpy outfit you wore the last time he'd have remembered you. DUH :shock: :mrgreen:

Almost everyone at my lfs totally knows me by name...it's like being in Cheers :D They knew me well after my 2nd visit there. I even come in and hug one of the girls there cuz I'm such a great customer!

Mayhaps next time I'll show a bit more wrasse...

And I found a better LFS. Swear by it. Love the guy that works there.

 

[justanotherfishhead]

I also had problems after listening to my LFS. This store is rated 5 stars on Yelp, the highest in the city. So I trusted them. They are very nice and remembered my name every time I came in. They really seem to care and I don't think they meant to give any bad advice. They just try not to overwhelm new hobbyists, just start them out with the basics. I wish I'd have done more research but like so many I was really excited to get started. They started me with a Fluval canister, live sand (in bags), IO Biospira bottled bacteria, and never mentioned live rock (I guess because I was doing FO to start). After I got it all set up they said to come back the next day for 3 damsels. Thankfully because of the live sand and bottle bacteria the damsels were okay, I never had a big ammonia spike. I picked up a test kit right away and started learning about water quality (I know, should have done this long before!). Found out my nitrates were 80-100 ppm because they told me it was fine to use tap water. My tap water is really bad. I called the water company, they tested it and say it's lower than the API test of 60-70ppm, just under the EPA maximum allowed of 45ppm. Whatever. Anyway, it's finally down to 0 now, and I picked up a good skimmer and added a good amount of live rock. I had to catch those damsels and take them back, which was not fun (after I had added all the rock). But I have to admit I still go to the LFS, along with another one that also has healthy livestock. But I think for myself now, and continue to learn more all the time :)

 

[NanoReefer]

at my lfs the guy knows me by name, and would never steer me in the wrong direction. i tank alot of risks in this hobby such as putting a nem into my tank 3 months is, running a seaclone skimmer, using sand from a public beach, and using tap water. i understand the risks of these things before i do it, your lfs wont know everything. take some time and research yourself. everyone has impulse buys sometimes, but it cant be a habit.

 

[sen5241b]

A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a --lie. How is it ever okay for a LFS to lie?
Sarah, your McDonald's comparison doesn't hold water. McDonald's does not lie to people about the content of their food when they come into a store.

That LFS took advantage of someone they knew was uninformed to sell him fish that they knew would die. The LFS was substantially culpable.

 

[NanoReefer]

i completely disagree with that, if you dont know what it is dont buy it! its impossible for a lfs to know everything... he added fish before his tank was cycled and 3 fish at that. you should know about tank cycling when setting up a reef tank...

 

[Bredfan]

I think this is all a bit ridiculous, with all due respect.

So, let me get this straight.... I got to a fish store and start talking the owner. He tells me he's been in business for 13 years in the same location. I explain I'm a total newbie and need to understand how to get started.

He gives me ongoing bad advice and it is my fault for not taking what he told me and fact checking it?

BS.

First, as someone implied above, I did not immediately jump on the "that LFS are bad people bandwagon." My conclusion about this store came after several months and multiple interactions.

Second, the "it's just as much your fault" poster seems to completely ignore the fact that after things seemed to be trending badly, I DID in fact seek other knowledge. Sorry if my attempt to find good information didn't meet her standards.

Last, the point of the post is to help other new people from making the same mistakes. The fact that I hold the LFS responsible is my conclusion and one that - I'll say AGAIN - I came to after several months and many interactions with.

The "it's you're fault too" comments seem snide, unnecessarily contrarian, and frankly uncalled for, given my outline of events.

That's all I have to say about that.

Cheers.

 

[NanoReefer]

alright, well im 15, and have to pinch every penny i can. i work every summer and during school so i can afford to run my tank, and save money for the future. i research everything before i buy it so i just dont go throwing money down the toilet. but if youve got money to blow, and dont wanna research its whatever...

 

[Bredfan]

Nano - my last post was not directed at you. But I have to correct something....

"...and don't wanna research its whatever..." is a terrible mischaracterization of the entire exchange. I would encourage you to re-read it to get the proper context.

Now.... THAT's all I have to say about that... :-)

 

[NanoReefer]

i re-read it and i dont see whats wrong, you clearly didnt do much research if you added 3 fish to your tank while it was cycling...

 

[wontonflip]

Hey, when I first started saltwater, I knew nothing. I inherited my brother's tank, who ran his tank based off information his LFS gave him, which he passed on to me.

I went and talked to the lfs for over an hour. They gave me detailed information. Some of it, I now know, was unnecessary. But yes, I trusted them. But after spending $$$ that I didn't need to on equipment, I learned my lesson about relying on just 1 source.

Sorry, but people have to make the mistakes of trusting their lfs if that's all they had at the time. I don't blame the customer...UNTIL that person continues to disregard other sources of information. It's not right to jump on people who relied on what turned out to be a poor source of information. Hell, before here, I would've kept on trusting the lfs. I never had reason to not trust them, except that i wanted to be thorough and do my research so I don't waste my money. Bedfan is doing great cuz he's learning from his mistake. Sadly, we've seen way too many people who continue to take their lfs' word as gold.

 

[SarahSmile]

Bredfan, my comments were NOT meant to be snide. I feel as though I get wrapped up in trying to make a point and forget that feelings of the original poster are involved. I sincerely apologize. Once in a while I stumble upon a post and it just rubs me the wrong way.
I hope you stick around for a long while and feel certain that, in 8-12 months of you'll see many posts like "so this yellow tang I got in my biocube has a disease and it's my LFS' fault cause they sold it to me" and I don't know what this fish/nem is but my store sold it to me so it ust be ok and said to feed it flakes" and they get great advice here, but continue to do as they please and when they fail and the livestock dies, then, it's all aboard the "bad lfs train" because no one wants to accept personal responsibility that all it would have taken was a simple internet search to find out how to cycle a tank or what fish or creatures they can keep.
I'll give you a pass for a month and a fish death or two but after 3 months and 6 fish, I'm sorry, I no longer feel as though the LFS is SOLELY to blame and simply wish instead of posting that you were the victim and the people at the store are "bad people" I wish you had posted; hey, I'm a newbie like most of you are/were and here are the mistakes I made, I didn't research and that is my fault and I blindly stumbled about, hope someone can learn from my mistakes. THAT is commendable to me. That earns respect.
A lot of us had troubles getting started and ALL of us have been told untruths/false information from a fish store at one time or another. We sigh, say, well we learned our lesson and move on, we won't go to that store, we will let local reefing clubs know, BUT, to not take some responsibility as well is simply madness to me.
Again, glad you got things figured out. I hope you have your tank for a long long time and it brings you a lot of happiness.

 

[Sdotbro]

alright, well im 15, and have to pinch every penny i can. i work every summer and during school so i can afford to run my tank, and save money for the future. i research everything before i buy it so i just dont go throwing money down the toilet. but if youve got money to blow, and dont wanna research its whatever...

^ Agreed ^

This is why this forum is here. Thanks for the post, feel your pain. Everybody's experience is a little different, but I think this post is great. Personally I'd rather hear from reef-owners at home doing research themselves than the local "Fish Specialist" at the LFS.

BTW the "Fish Specialist" tried to get me to buy their canister filter too. They told me great things about the filter but left out the drawbacks I hear about on this site... -____-

 

[NanoReefer]

well many people use canisters in saltwater, but mainly to run carbon, phosban etc. the problem is using it with a filter pad which is still fine. when i set up my 10 gallon i did no water changes and only ran a powerfilter for the first 7 months after i set it up, it was flourishing the only reason i took it down was to set up my 37...

 

[justanotherfishhead]

well many people use canisters in saltwater, but mainly to run carbon, phosban etc. the problem is using it with a filter pad which is still fine. when i set up my 10 gallon i did no water changes and only ran a powerfilter for the first 7 months after i set it up, it was flourishing the only reason i took it down was to set up my 37...

I'm still using the canister that I bought from my LFS. As long as my nitrates/phosphates are 0 there is no reason to remove it, right? Or is there some other reason it's bad? I am running a skimmer too and have plenty of live rock.

 

[NanoReefer]

with a skimmer and live rock you should take the filterpad out of the filter, and run a large bag of carbon to polish water...

 

[justanotherfishhead]

with a skimmer and live rock you should take the filterpad out of the filter, and run a large bag of carbon to polish water...

I'm confused, I thought carbon should not be used on a regular basis because it pulls out the trace minerals. I don't use any, and thought you didn't have to. So many different opinions....