Overflow and Sump??????

[ZOOT098]

Hi everyone thanks for all the advice so far

I have decided to forget about the canister filter and go with the sum/refugium method

I have also decided to go with the 48" nova extreme

now from what i gather i have a 90 gallon tank that i need to turn over 6 times an hour thats 540 gallons an hour and i need to match my return pump gallons per hour with the overflow gallons per hour

sooooo

1- my tank is corner drilled and has a black shroud in the corner to cover the plumbing...is this my overflow? the black shroud is not seled on the bottom and sides or anything it seems it is just there to cover the plumbing. if it is the over flow how do i know how many gallons per hour it is draing into the sump??????

2- I will be fabricating my sump/ref. out of a 20 gallon long tank. is it better to go with the long tank or the 20 gallon tall?

3- is the volume of water in my sump system added to the amount of water i have to figure i will be turning per hour?

4- Some of the sumps i have seen have three chambers that are also divided by two small chambers on either side of the middle chamber maybe 2" wide are these needed and what is their function?

i will stop there i could go on all night with questions
thanks in advance

 

[bjohanson1234]

The dimensions of the tank dont really matter. A 20L tank will work as well as a 20 tall. Get the biggest one that will fit.

The different sections of the sump are
Sections 1
Where the water drains into. Can also put the skimmer or other equipment here.

Section 2
Refuge. A place where you have a deep sand bed about 6-8 inches deep with some macro algea in it. Used to remove excess nutrients. And also as a safe haven for pod production.

Section 3
Return pump. This section needs to be big enough so that the water level will be above the pump. This is also the only section that the water level will change.

Brian

 

[ZOOT098]

thanks BJ

ok apparently i have lied i just want out and looked at my tank and the corner shroud is sealed on the sides and bottom so it will draw water from the top of the tank.

sorry

 

[ccCapt]

It's probably the standard 1" drilled overflow which will do about 600 gph.

I used a 20 long for the sump on my 75. It worked real nice.

 

[ZOOT098]

i found a used 20 long for $15 should fit perfect in the stand im building

i also went ahead and bought a nova extreme pro light fixture

the closest pump i could find was a submersible 700gal per hour which should work good.

i found a coralife ro/di filtration unit on ebay for $100 new in the box, i figure this will actually save me money in the long run

im going to attempt the sump build this week

for the baffels in the sump i was going to use acrylic, is one thickness better than another???????

and are bubble traps needed??? or optional???

im hopeing that the tank will be up and cycling in two weeks

 

[bjohanson1234]

I would go to a hardware store and have some single pane glass cut to the size you need. It is cheaper than acrylic and you dont have to do the cutting yourself. You really only need a bubble trap right before the pump to help keep from shooting micro bubbles back into the tank. This is acheved by having a peice of glass flush to the bottom followed by another peice of glass about an inch away and inch from the bottom followed by another peice of glass about an inch away flush with the bottom.

Brian

 

[Bifferwine]

In my last sump (20 gallons), I had a bubble trap, just like bjohanson described. In my current sump (55 gallons), the skimmer is far enough away from the return pump that I don't get any microbubbles in the return section, so I did not add a bubble trap. So it's optional.

I used the thickest plexiglass that Lowe's sold to build mine.

 

[ccCapt]

I'm not familiar with a "bubble trap". It just sounds like a typical baffle setup to me. Regardless, you should have baffles setup to keep the section the skimmer is in at a constant water level. Unless you have a recirculating skimmer, they run best when the water level is constant.
It was actually cheaper for me to go the the local glass shop and have the baffles cut for me than it was to buy it from HD and cut them myself. I think the plexi is 3/16". It's not the real thin stuff, but not quite 1/4".

 

[bjohanson1234]

the baffle thickness really doesnt matter. The water level is even on both sides of the baffle. So there is no preasure on one side over the other.

Brian

 

[ZOOT098]

should the sump just be seperated into thirds? or should the seperate compartments be different sizes?

how far down from the top or up from the bottom of the sump tank should the baffels be???

 

[RyanG]

The sump should be devided so that each end compartment is big enough for the skimmer in one end and the return pump in the middle the space left between should be your fuge. Dont run the baffles to the top so that WHEN you have a loss in power you dont flood.

 

[fatman]

You will not get 600 gph through one 1 inch bulkhead. A safe estimate is 300 to 350 gph and feel your doing excellent to get 400 gph. If you only have one overflow then your pump should be one designed for around 450 to 500 gph as you will lose some capacity doe to friction and head losses (pumping uphill). A good circulation rate for a mixed reef tank is at least a 20 x turn over per hour, so for you that will mean after subtracting for volume displacd by rock and sand, at least 1500 gph. That means you will needto make up for 100 gph by trhe use of power heads in your tank. Using a 20 gallon tall tank will allow more space for an external pump and timers and such under your tank, however it will allow less room in the sump for a skimmer and such. A 20 gallon long tank would give space for a fair sized refugium, and a skimmer, but you might need to use a submersible pump do to the tanks length. I guarantee you that no one gets 600 gph through a one inch bulkhead fed by an overflow tube. A bulkhead would have to be fed by a permanent siphon to get 600 gph, and then it is only theoretically possible even with a siphon. No one has ever provided proof of 600 gph flow through a one inch bulkhead in actuality, only on paper through use of hydrological equations.

 

[ZOOT098]

ok im lost again

so if im only draining 300-350 gph that means the pump i bought based on 600-650gph is way to big??????

and i dont understand making up for tank turnover with powerheads could you elaborate on that, i dont grasp the concept

thanks

 

[fatman]

If you plan on a refugium I would get a 20 gallon tall or a 30 gallon tank. A 20 gallon long just is not really tall enough as you will need to leave a 20 gallon tank nearly half empty to have the capacity to hold your system drain down from when your pump shuts off. With a 20 gallon long that would mean just a little over 6 inches of water. A 20 tall would allow a little over 8 inches and a 30 gallon would allow 11 inches. Therefore a 30 gallon would allow for a deep sand bed and algae whereas of the 20 gallon tall tanks would only allow macro algae. The 20 gallon long would not really allow either a deep sand bed or a really beneficial amount of macro algae. Look at the dimensions of your skimmer to establish where baffle one goes, Baffles two and three are roughly an inch apart next to baffle one. EXAMPLE HYDROLOGICALLY: The pump return baffle should be tall enough to hold at least two days of tank evaporation above the top of the pumps inlet. There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon, so assuming your tank would evaporate probably 2 gallons in two days with T-5 lighting. Figure a submersible pump inlet at three inches at the top, a 20 gallon tall tank is 16.5 inchs tall inside, so max height for baffle is 8.25, so 5.25 above pump inlet. Then 5.25 x 12.25 (width inside) = 64.31 sq in 2 gallons = 462 cu in therefore 462/64.31 = 7.19 or 7.25 inches approximately. A Coralife 125 Skimmer is 5 inch wide. Five inches plus 7.25 inches subtracted from 23.75 inches inside measurement is 11.5 inches and in side of that space will be your two bubble baffle and then a a 9.5 inch wide refugium. I would make the skimmer baffle an inch taller than the pump return baffle. The first bubble baffle would stop an inch from the bottom and run up about two inches above the skimmer baffle, The second bubble baffle would be at the same height as the pump return baffle. This short last baffle will prevent a waterfall effect which would stir up yourdeep sand bed. You will after all be moving about 35 times the sumps volume of water through the sump per hour. That is moving pretty fast. The bubble trap is definitely advisable with such a small sump. A four inch sand bed will allow good denitrification and critter growth and 4.25 inches of water above it is good enough for macro algae. Put your heater in your pump return chamber or skimmer chamber.

 

[reeffreak]

ok im lost again

so if im only draining 300-350 gph that means the pump i bought based on 600-650gph is way to big??????

and i dont understand making up for tank turnover with powerheads could you elaborate on that, i dont grasp the concept

thanks

Put a ball valve on the return end of the pump.It will allow you to control how fast/slow the water is being returned.Most pumps will lose 150gph or more when head height in put into account.The pump you have will be fine.

The return pump will not be enough flow.The powerheads will be the additional flow you will need.

 

[ZOOT098]

when making the sump how do you know how high to make the baffels, and how far up from the bottom of the tank to keep the raised baffels?

i thought i was fairly well educated till i decided to jump into this hobby :)

 

[daugherty]

i would put the baffles just a little over half but under 3/4 to the top

 

[Bifferwine]

Baffles for the bubble trap should be raised 1 to 2 inches off the bottom of the tank. I'd leave several inches of space at the top in case the power goes out. I think in my tank I have 4 inches of space at the top.

 

[fatman]

I explained in a detailed manner the height and spacing of your baffles based on the use of a 20 gallon standard tank and the dimension of the foot print of a Coralife skimmer, and for using a standard sized submersible return pump. The recommendations I gave are based on the minimum amount of water you should design for your sump to hold while the pump is running. It is a basic design set up for safety against the pump running dry versus safety of overflow of sump when pump quits running during power outage. It is simple to add to an existing sumps baffle, if you find you can safely have a higher water level in your sump. It is much more difficult to remove baffles, shorten them and reinstall them if they are too tall. There for in design with limited information I design for safety and ease in adjustments. You really can not judge the maximum baffle height you can use until you decide on or design your return line nozzle depths in your tank as they mainly govern the amount of water that drains back into your tank during a pump shut down. I dwell in an engineers mind so my writings are sometimes difficult for some people to understand or follow. Sorry! I would not recommend you set your baffles much higher initially than I suggested with such a small sump as for every one inch of draindown from your display tank you fill almost 3 inches of your 20 gallon tall sump tank. It adds up quickly.