Gooseman
Reefing Is An Obsession
- Location
- Monticello, Indiana
i agree that they may be comparable on some scale but, 1 gallon of my tank water doesn't have near the organic matter that 1 gallon of our influent does.
Nitrites, and Nitrates
- Thread starter chemjoey
- Start date
sen5241b
Reef enthusiast
- Location
- Arlington VA
Excellent discussion although I have trouble with fatman calling what comes into sewage plants "food".
Gooseman
Reefing Is An Obsession
- Location
- Monticello, Indiana
he is right though ... without sewage coming into the treatment plant the microorganisms wouldn't be able to sustain life ... they need 2 elements to survive ... a source of food (raw sewage) and air
fatman
Reefing newb
The BOD exponential curves work out proportionally the same just the scale diifers.
Same-same.
Nature ussualy treats small sytems the same as large. The problems with small systems are usually seen quicker leading to testing of large systems. Very few scientists are actively involved in the reef trade so some times large scale systems point to testing and observation of small systems.
fatman
Reefing newb
Oxygen, not air. Air just happens to be the cheapest and easiest way to make oxygen available. There is actually little oxygen in air, and it in turn puts little oxygen into the water. Oxygen is nearly always, always the limiting factor for bacteria multiplication, not food. They can actually pull nutrients from air, slowly but they can do it. They will not pull those nutrients when they do not have sufficient oxygen though.
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Gooseman
Reefing Is An Obsession
- Location
- Monticello, Indiana
not to sound smug but that quote "There is actually little oxygen in air" ahhh what??!! If your speaking on pure oxygen then i understand ... like when old people are on an oxygen tank or something ... but when we treat the sewage here at this plant we do not inject oxygen but air from centrifugal blowers ... our bacteria seem just fine reproducing and breaking down compounds ... i also don't think the anyone i know injects oxygen into their aquariums either but plain ole air and yet the bacteria multiply anyway ... but reduce ample amounts of either "oxygen or air" and bugs quit multiplying and eventually die regardless of the amount of food ... unless you are talking about anaerobic bacteria that adsorb rather than absorb ... by the way fatman you have one of the coolest avatars on this forum ... i love the way that little green guy walks!
fatman
Reefing newb
Reminds me of a cartoon character during the drug generation of the sixties called Mr. Natural. He was seen a few years later on shirts that said keep n trucking.
By saying little oxygen I meant the percentage of oxygen to all the other gases combined. All that hydrogen and CO2 and other stuff we inhale along with the oxygen. Oxygen concentrations in room air are not great. For some reason I can not remember the percentages but if I remember right Oxygen is a minor stock holder in typical room air. You do not want to know how the O2 drops and the CO2 rises during the night in a reef tank or your home during the winter if your house is well insulated. I keep a window cracked by my tanks all winter long. Wow, inside air gets worse than LA's air during the winter. I like when processing plants use roots blowers. Reminds me of my teens and early twenties when there were Chrysler Hemis with GMC blowers actually being street driven regularly in the midwest. Its been great communicating with somebody with your practical experience with a working Bio system. Keep them bar racks clean now. Let others figure that out. Thank You, Gooseman!
By saying little oxygen I meant the percentage of oxygen to all the other gases combined. All that hydrogen and CO2 and other stuff we inhale along with the oxygen. Oxygen concentrations in room air are not great. For some reason I can not remember the percentages but if I remember right Oxygen is a minor stock holder in typical room air. You do not want to know how the O2 drops and the CO2 rises during the night in a reef tank or your home during the winter if your house is well insulated. I keep a window cracked by my tanks all winter long. Wow, inside air gets worse than LA's air during the winter. I like when processing plants use roots blowers. Reminds me of my teens and early twenties when there were Chrysler Hemis with GMC blowers actually being street driven regularly in the midwest. Its been great communicating with somebody with your practical experience with a working Bio system. Keep them bar racks clean now. Let others figure that out. Thank You, Gooseman!
Gooseman
Reefing Is An Obsession
- Location
- Monticello, Indiana
as always fatman it is a great pleasure to read your posts ... i enjoy all the helpful information you have ... its nice to know there are those, with a great knowledge and love of fish, on this forum we can go to for help when needed. :bowdown:
mikej2336
Reefing newb
- Location
- Vancouver, BC Canada
buy a product called Nitrate Sponge. It's a granular zeolitic medium of some sort and will foster anaerobic bacteria growth, and will slowly reduce nitrate and ammonia.
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fatman
Reefing newb
If you choose to use a zeolite nitrate remover (Ammonex) go to the Argent Chemical site. They sell the zeolite nitrate sponge in bulk for about a tenth the price as buying small packages. They supply the people who repackage it into the small retail packaging. They also tell you how to recharge it so that it can be used over again. They sell a 1.1 pound bag (500 gram) for $2. Pretty darn cheap. They also sell large amounts, and many more aquatic used chemicals and supplies. Typically it is a site used by commercial coral growers and aquatic farmers etc., so most packing amounts are large. They do not sell the typical cheap grades of equipment though, so I warned you when you look at the prices of their electronic equipment you need not fall out. There equipment is professonal equipment meant for rough handling asis common with commercial use.
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fatman
Reefing newb
Oh I forgot to say that Ammonex, just like Nitrate Sponge is for fresh water not salt water. A word of advice, if it says zeolite or ion exchange it is for use only with fresh water. There are no magic chemicals that will effectively remove nitrates from salt water, at least none that can be used in a marine/reef tank. Carbon will remove nitrate if left in use long enough by becoming a bacteriological filter, as will Seachem deNitrate. The alternative to nitrate control is feed less, skimming, frequent partial water changes, growing algae then trimming it and discarding the trimmings, or growing sacrificial fast growing soft corals and removing from system regularly.
Bifferwine
I am a girl
- Location
- Lynnwood, WA and missing Tucson, AZ
SeaChem and Kent Marine both make nitrate sponges for saltwater, and I tried both products in my old 55 gallon tank that had high nitrates.
Both of them say on the package that they take several weeks to start working, and even though I was using them in a phosphate reactor (as recommended), I saw absolutely no difference in my nitrates.
Based on my experience, I would not recommend spending money on either of these products, and would recommend doing more water changes, upgrading skimmers, adding macroalgae, removing canister filters, lessening feedings and decreasing bioload as the best ways to decrease nitrates.
Both of them say on the package that they take several weeks to start working, and even though I was using them in a phosphate reactor (as recommended), I saw absolutely no difference in my nitrates.
Based on my experience, I would not recommend spending money on either of these products, and would recommend doing more water changes, upgrading skimmers, adding macroalgae, removing canister filters, lessening feedings and decreasing bioload as the best ways to decrease nitrates.
fatman
Reefing newb
Seachem and Kent Marine both make filtration media that supports the growth of denitrifying bacteria on their porous surfaces under the guise of nitrate sponges. They do nothing else in the way of removing nitrite or nitrates, nor do they claim too. Their packaging and advertisements must be read carefully. They themselves are incapable of removing nitrogenous compounds. Nope, still no magic chemical or filtration media for the removal of nitrites or nitrates that can be used in a reef aquarium. Chemistry is not magic, clearly not readily viewable due to the microscopic levels and speed of reactions and multiple steps involved in some reactions, so there is mainly just speculation and educated guessing as to reaction processes, but still not magic.
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