I'm making my rocks following Eddie's recipie, But I do have a question. I just pulled my first rock out of the sand and haven't even started to dissolve the rock slat yet and when I was pouring water over it it seemed poropus enough, I mean I was DUMPING glassfuls of water on the rock and it ALL soaked in. I'm thinking on trying a batch without the rock salt and see what happens.
DIY base rock...a la Garf
- Thread starter wontonflip
- Start date
OHH also, how fragile is your rocks??? I made a much smaller rock than the ones I seen pictured and when I went to pick it up after rinsing the sand off it broke into many different pieces. Maybe I didn't let it dry out long enough??? any suggestions or tips would be awesome guys thanks!.
Ted
Living one day at a time
Here another site that has some interesting rock recipes. lots of formulas i like the one using pasta in it.Aquarium DIY Plans Database- Live Rocks Give it a read looked interesting
mng777777
Shark Wrangler Wannabe
I dont think I would skip the salt. You might cut back if you feel that there is too much, but that is how you make the rock porous. Without the salt you will just have a solid hunk of concrete
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
We always buy that bag for our home's water softener. Morton's website says it has "insoluble particles", so hopefully that doesn't mean anything bad. We get ours from Walmart.
dcantucson
Reef pro
Oh great! Now you tell us!!! :lol:
Seriously that doesn't sound good....
Seriously that doesn't sound good....
Well the thing about the salt is, when I made my first batch before I dissolved the salt I wanted to see how porous it was, well the rock seems extremely porous. None the water fell down the sides of the rock and it all seeped out of the bottom of the rock, have you tried to make it without the salt and see how propus it was??
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
Finally got the last component to make the live rock -- the salt! I went ahead and got the Morton's Solar Water Softener Salt. I did more research on their site, and they did say it is safe to add to saltwater and freshwater aquariums (AS ADDITIVES, but not to actually make the salt water -- they advise, of course, to use salt specifically for aquariums as they do not make salt for aquariums; Theirs do not come from the ocean, therefore does not have trace elements.). This salt has no additives. So I'm now pretty much confident using this (of course my husband has been saying this all along and has been impatient with me on this topic hehehe). Better safe than sorry!!!!!
Too bad it's raining outside!!!! LOL Guess I'll do it tomorrow. Pictures to be posted on my build thread.
Too bad it's raining outside!!!! LOL Guess I'll do it tomorrow. Pictures to be posted on my build thread.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea if your rocks are breaking then there's something not quite right.. either too much salt rock, or perhaps the mix was too wet when poured, or maybe it wasnt dry before being handled..
when i did mine, i did about 1 scoop of portland cement to 1-2 scoops of rock salt. Just remember that salt can reduce the chemical bond that occours in curing cement, so too much could make the rocks brittle.
i didnt try pouring water on mine once they were "dry". i poured them, let them set for 2-3 days, and then put them in the freshwater cure bin.
after about 2 months of that, i started really handeling them, and there were some little crumbs that broke off the surface, but i banged the rocks together a couple times by accident, and they held together perfectly.
mine have been in my tank now for what, a week, or just over, and it seems that everyone in the tank likes them just fine. My starfish has really taken to climbing on the new rock, and my clown fish really likes the cave i made....
when i did mine, i did about 1 scoop of portland cement to 1-2 scoops of rock salt. Just remember that salt can reduce the chemical bond that occours in curing cement, so too much could make the rocks brittle.
i didnt try pouring water on mine once they were "dry". i poured them, let them set for 2-3 days, and then put them in the freshwater cure bin.
after about 2 months of that, i started really handeling them, and there were some little crumbs that broke off the surface, but i banged the rocks together a couple times by accident, and they held together perfectly.
mine have been in my tank now for what, a week, or just over, and it seems that everyone in the tank likes them just fine. My starfish has really taken to climbing on the new rock, and my clown fish really likes the cave i made....
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
FINALLY got a small trial batch made! Looks like poop in a kitty sandbox LOL
The final choice in salt -- Morton's white crystal salt for water softeners, which I found to have no additives, so it's safe for marine tanks. Around $2.99 I think at Walmart
Aragonite sand (around $24 for a 40lb bag from my LFS)
Portland 1-2 cement (around $10 - Home Depot)
40lbs crushed oyster shell from Booth Feeds around $12
I dampened the sand in this styrofoam box, and in a rubbermaid tub
I used Eddie's 3 shells to 1 cement proportion
Hubby inadvertently dumped the WHOLE container of water into the mix! I had to add more cement and shells to thicken it....which was fine, because I needed more to fill the tubs.
See?? Poop in a litterbox!
Smells pretty bad.
I'll be extra patient and wait until tuesday to check.....ok, well, we'll see LOL But I know the longer you wait to move it around to make sure it's dry the better.
Let's see...the thread started May 12...not bad...only took me almost 8 weeks to begin this project :^:
The final choice in salt -- Morton's white crystal salt for water softeners, which I found to have no additives, so it's safe for marine tanks. Around $2.99 I think at Walmart
Aragonite sand (around $24 for a 40lb bag from my LFS)
Portland 1-2 cement (around $10 - Home Depot)
40lbs crushed oyster shell from Booth Feeds around $12
I dampened the sand in this styrofoam box, and in a rubbermaid tub
I used Eddie's 3 shells to 1 cement proportion
Hubby inadvertently dumped the WHOLE container of water into the mix! I had to add more cement and shells to thicken it....which was fine, because I needed more to fill the tubs.
See?? Poop in a litterbox!
Smells pretty bad.
I'll be extra patient and wait until tuesday to check.....ok, well, we'll see LOL But I know the longer you wait to move it around to make sure it's dry the better.
Let's see...the thread started May 12...not bad...only took me almost 8 weeks to begin this project :^:
mng777777
Shark Wrangler Wannabe
Good work! I look forward to seeing the final product!
dcantucson
Reef pro
Way to go wonton. Hope it turns out good; we're waiting to see the finished product before we commit to doing it ourselves! :lol:
project5k
Reef enthusiast
sounds exactly like what i went through when i did my first batch.. i actually just did a big batch this weekend, I'm using a little simpler mix on mine, just the portland, that exact same rocksalt, and this time i added crushed florida coral.
Basically what i did was i used lots of salt for my molds(i ended up using 5 bags of salt between the moulds and what went into the mix) , sprinkeled in some of the crushed coral so that it would stick to the surface and then poured in the mixed up portland and rock salt. then i would sprinkle in more of the crushed coral to try and have the surface of the new rock covered.
after 24 hours of dry time, i unmolded all of my new rocks, and bingo, the crushed coral seemed to stick to the sruface pretty good, where i put it(i missed some places) but anway, so 130lbs of rock made.(now thats with all the salt still inside, and stuck to the surface, put it all into 2 rubbermade bins, and started up the water timer.
in the first 24 hours, you have more salt desolved into the water than any other time, so i manually stir and change the water every hour or so(when i remember) just to try and keep the concentrations low.
after the first 24 hours in the bins i noticed all the surface salt had melted away, so i stirred up the totes real good, and dumped all the water and little chunks of salt that were in the bottom of the bin out.
now its just time waiting for all the lime and salt on the inside to dissolve away, and then i can get a measurement of the rocks and see how much of that original 130 lbs was salt...
if i remember i'll take some pictures when i get home of what i have in the cure out bins...
Basically what i did was i used lots of salt for my molds(i ended up using 5 bags of salt between the moulds and what went into the mix) , sprinkeled in some of the crushed coral so that it would stick to the surface and then poured in the mixed up portland and rock salt. then i would sprinkle in more of the crushed coral to try and have the surface of the new rock covered.
after 24 hours of dry time, i unmolded all of my new rocks, and bingo, the crushed coral seemed to stick to the sruface pretty good, where i put it(i missed some places) but anway, so 130lbs of rock made.(now thats with all the salt still inside, and stuck to the surface, put it all into 2 rubbermade bins, and started up the water timer.
in the first 24 hours, you have more salt desolved into the water than any other time, so i manually stir and change the water every hour or so(when i remember) just to try and keep the concentrations low.
after the first 24 hours in the bins i noticed all the surface salt had melted away, so i stirred up the totes real good, and dumped all the water and little chunks of salt that were in the bottom of the bin out.
now its just time waiting for all the lime and salt on the inside to dissolve away, and then i can get a measurement of the rocks and see how much of that original 130 lbs was salt...
if i remember i'll take some pictures when i get home of what i have in the cure out bins...
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wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
Sweet, Project. Always good to see everyone's results so hopefully we can learn from any mistakes. If this first batch works out, I'll be more confident with the next batches. I'll have to get more crushed clamshells. I don't know where you guys find your stuff. I found my crushed clam shells at a feed store, and the crushed corals are at the petstore i'm sure, but they're so expensive.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea, i looked and looked, and a couple people on here pointed me in a couple really good directions, but it just didnt pan out for me to try ordering them online. the local feed stores around where i live didnt cary anything except crushed oyster shell in a 5lb bak for like $7. i said phooie on that...
i got a 40lb bag of crushed florida coral for 33 bucks, got my salt and the portland cement at home depot, and the forms were cardboard boxes and buckets, and an old kitchen sink i had laying around.
i figure, by the time i calculate in my time, and the water for the washout and cure cycles, and the materials, it ended up costing me about $1 per pound to make what could easily cost me $5per pound if i were to buy it at the LFS.
Not to mention that i got a really cool chemistry lesson, and then got to share that knowledge with a buddy of mine from out of town.(he helped me make the 130lbs of rock...
if you like, you can see a picture of what i made with my first batch in my tank in my showcase thread: https://www.livingreefs.com/project5k-and-new-75gal-salt-tank-t19830.html look for the post: June 29th, 2009, 07:42 PM
the one rock in the farthest back right corner of the tank is the one i like the most... thats the one where i learned how to use the salt as my forms, so the surface texture is much more natural looking, than the others... Thats also what this entire batch looks like, only with the coral stuck to the surface...
i got a 40lb bag of crushed florida coral for 33 bucks, got my salt and the portland cement at home depot, and the forms were cardboard boxes and buckets, and an old kitchen sink i had laying around.
i figure, by the time i calculate in my time, and the water for the washout and cure cycles, and the materials, it ended up costing me about $1 per pound to make what could easily cost me $5per pound if i were to buy it at the LFS.
Not to mention that i got a really cool chemistry lesson, and then got to share that knowledge with a buddy of mine from out of town.(he helped me make the 130lbs of rock...
if you like, you can see a picture of what i made with my first batch in my tank in my showcase thread: https://www.livingreefs.com/project5k-and-new-75gal-salt-tank-t19830.html look for the post: June 29th, 2009, 07:42 PM
the one rock in the farthest back right corner of the tank is the one i like the most... thats the one where i learned how to use the salt as my forms, so the surface texture is much more natural looking, than the others... Thats also what this entire batch looks like, only with the coral stuck to the surface...
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
Did you use Portland cement 1-2? I couldn't find #3, which is what Garf suggested, so I used 1-2. Mine are so dark, but I don't know if it's because they're not fully dry yet? I could probably pull them out now...it's been 24 hrs, but I thought I'd wait an extra day...hehehe.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea, i used portland cement #1. I would think that after 24 hours that they would be getting into the ready to handle zone. Heres the thing, the sooner you get it into the soak water, the stronger that the cement will be, cause cement dosent "dry" it cures due to a chemical reaction called hydration, this is why concrete will still get hard under water. The longer and slower and wetter that you keep it during its curing process, the stronger it will be.
Oh, and the reminder i put on my phone to take pictures when i got home, worked!
heres 130lbs of home made base rock/live rock whatever you wanna call it, in the freshwater cureing bins...
so what your looking at is all the rocks in the bins, and stuff, and then you can see in one of them that its 2 bins and the auto water timer i'm using to automatically change the water in the tubs every 6 hours. Then last but not least, i really did throw in the kitchen sink! the wife made me put in a new sink, and this is the old circa 1970's avacado green cast iron sink that i took out. It looked like a mould to me... so i used it.. you can see the rock salt that i left behind from when i pulled the rocks out.
Oh, and the reminder i put on my phone to take pictures when i got home, worked!
heres 130lbs of home made base rock/live rock whatever you wanna call it, in the freshwater cureing bins...
so what your looking at is all the rocks in the bins, and stuff, and then you can see in one of them that its 2 bins and the auto water timer i'm using to automatically change the water in the tubs every 6 hours. Then last but not least, i really did throw in the kitchen sink! the wife made me put in a new sink, and this is the old circa 1970's avacado green cast iron sink that i took out. It looked like a mould to me... so i used it.. you can see the rock salt that i left behind from when i pulled the rocks out.
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wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
Oh that auto time looks great!! So every 6 hours, it drains, and refills? I need one of those!! We're leaving town this weekend for 2 weeks. I was going to have my neighbor's son, who's fish-sitting for me, replace the water once a day. But that's even better!! How's that work and how much did it cost?
Mine have been curing in a tub of water since last night. Yours do look as dark as mine. My next batch will have more salt. I was overly conservative with this first batch. I feel more comfortable adding the recommended amount of salt to the next batch.
Mine have been curing in a tub of water since last night. Yours do look as dark as mine. My next batch will have more salt. I was overly conservative with this first batch. I feel more comfortable adding the recommended amount of salt to the next batch.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea, that first batch you worrie that too much salt will cause it all to break apart...
the auto timer i have is from homedepot, it was on the sprinkler isle, i'm not finding it on thier website right now, but i think i gave like $30 give or take for it. it has 4 "click on" times per day, and you can set each of 7 days differently.. i just have mine set up to turn the water on a 6am 12, 6pm, and midnight every day for 5 min.
then when the water comes on, the bins overflow, and that changes out the water well enough.
The other thing that i do, is about once a week, i go out and half drain the tubs, and slosh them viggerously to stir up any crud, and then i dump that, and fill the tubs back up by hand(actually my timer has a "manual kick on" that basically just turns the water on, whenever you want it to, for the preset time, whenever you push a button)
the theory is that after about a month of the fresh water washing, you should start measuring the ph and salinity of the water, and when you can leave the rocks in a tub of water for like 12 hours, and the parameters dont change, then the rocks have stopped leaching and its time to start the salt water cure...
the auto timer i have is from homedepot, it was on the sprinkler isle, i'm not finding it on thier website right now, but i think i gave like $30 give or take for it. it has 4 "click on" times per day, and you can set each of 7 days differently.. i just have mine set up to turn the water on a 6am 12, 6pm, and midnight every day for 5 min.
then when the water comes on, the bins overflow, and that changes out the water well enough.
The other thing that i do, is about once a week, i go out and half drain the tubs, and slosh them viggerously to stir up any crud, and then i dump that, and fill the tubs back up by hand(actually my timer has a "manual kick on" that basically just turns the water on, whenever you want it to, for the preset time, whenever you push a button)
the theory is that after about a month of the fresh water washing, you should start measuring the ph and salinity of the water, and when you can leave the rocks in a tub of water for like 12 hours, and the parameters dont change, then the rocks have stopped leaching and its time to start the salt water cure...
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
Ok, tested my salt in my rock water yesterday w/ my refracto, and it is practically at zero. It's only been in the water for 3 days (I've changed the water once a day since). would the salt have already dissolved? Haven't tested the PH. I would need a freshwater card for the PH to compare colors. It's extremely dark purple, which according to the saltwater card, is like 8.3 + Dunno if the colors are different if it's freshwater.
