changes to my 180

winyfrog

Yep!
So I have been giving this tons of thought.. I would like some more opinions.

I am changing my 180 to seahorses and pipefish. I will be pulling out all of my tangs, clowns, foxface etc.

First question is this. What corals will be safe for me to keep with the horses? here is a list of what I have
Colt Coral (my favorite weed :)
frogspawn
umbrella leather
some sps
candy cane
acan
dendro
fire cracker
mushrooms

Second question. What types of horses should I keep and can I put more then one species together?

:Cheers:
 
I'm no expert like Catherine, but any coral with sweeper/stinging tentacles will probably need to be removed, for they will sting the tails of the ponies. And also, I believe different species of ponies can be mixed together, for they are all peaceful. Be careful with cuc...crabs and shrimp can potentially tamper with their tales, causing serious illnesses.
 
There are few things to consider with your tank, besides compatable corals. Sea horses dont do well alone, and for such a large tank you would have to have quite a few for them to be happy. Also, they aren't open swimmers so you will be spending lots of time looking for them in such a huge tank.

Personally, if i was were you, I would keep the 180 tank as it is and start up a smaller sea horse tank. A tall 30 gal tank would be perfect for a pair of erectus which would allow you to see them more easily and enjoy them more.

If you are serious about doing sea horses, check out seahorse.com and take Pete's lessons and seahorsesource.com is run by amazing people and seahorse.org is also an amazing place for more information and is a forum just for sea horses
 
Hey, Winyfrog, glad to see you've finally come to your senses and are going to become a seahorse wrangler! WooT!

Let's go over the list you've provided. First, about the corals. I don't know enough about each specific coral you've listed but Smitty was totally right anything that stings will be a problem for your ponies. That usually eliminates a lot of the stony corals. Also, some of the corals you've listed makes me concerned about the lighting you've got. Horses can get stressed under intense light. You'll need to provide shade for them if you've got strong lighting system. Good coral choices for seahorse tanks include anything that has branches and doesn't sting. My horses really love the non-stinging gorgonians and the finger typed leather corals. Also, you may want to start looking into branching macro algae. While we're on the stinging subject, you probably want to start getting rid of your hermit crabs and your bristle worms. Try to use CUC that doesn't have claws. I've got a few hermits and I'm trying to catch them and move them to my fuge.

Something that is concerning me is your desire to mix seahorses and pipefish. I haven't done this but what I do know is that all pipefish are wild-caught which means they almost certainly have parasites. Most wild-caught seahorses will have parasites too. You'll need to be diligent about quarantine and de-worming all of your new arrivals. The favorite de-worming technique for most seahorse owners is the freshwater dip. I haven't had the need for doing this but I hear it's awful to watch but very effective. Do your research here, I just don't know enough about mixing pipefish and seahorses to give you advice. What I know about pipefish is that they are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to train on frozen foods. Are you ready to provide an assortment of live pods/ shrimps for them?

About keeping a group of horses. Horses need to be in 'herds' they are very social animals and they can die if they are all alone in a tank. Mine are happiest when I've got 4-6 and it doesn't matter how much real estate they've got to cover, they hang out together no matter how big or small the tank. I had 4 in my 26 gallon and 5 in my 55 gallon. If you've got a smaller tank, you'll need to be changing water more frequently and you'll need an amazing cleaning system (horses are pigs) but as long as there's a group, you're fine. When I move into my 155 gallon, I'm thinking 10-12 horses maybe 14? We'll see

Lastly, which species. I've kept H. erectus and H. reidi. Of those two, my favorite is the erectus. They are very personable, much more hardy and very active horses. The reidi are pretty and they know it, they tend to be posers and they are more temperamental about the slightest change to their environment. There are lots of other species each with their own set of tank needs so I would say to talk to Dan and Abbey at Seahorse Source Seahorse Source, the ultimate place for captive bred seahorses. and they will be able to give you good advice on a breed that would be good for you. There is a lot of controversy amongst seahorse keepers about mixing species. Most strongly state that it is very wrong to mix species. From a practical point of view many of them have different needs so you can't. I'll let you make up your own mind on that one. I have erectus and reidi in the same tank, I mixed them before I found out you shouldn't. They are both Atlantic seahorses with similar needs. I won't do it again and I wish I could separate them now but one of my reidi has bonded with an erectus and I feel it would be worse to move them. I agree with the "don't mix" philosophy and I won't do it again.

Little fish gave you great advice, take the class offered by Pete Giwonja. They are awesome, FREE, classes and they will cover everything you need to know about these beautiful animals!

Welcome aboard!
C
 
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I'm no expert like Catherine, but any coral with sweeper/stinging tentacles will probably need to be removed, for they will sting the tails of the ponies. And also, I believe different species of ponies can be mixed together, for they are all peaceful. Be careful with cuc...crabs and shrimp can potentially tamper with their tales, causing serious illnesses.


I am far from being an expert. I do know where to go to get answers but I'm very new at this myself!

C
 
Hey, Winyfrog, glad to see you've finally come to your senses and are going to become a seahorse wrangler! WooT! :) lol I know it right!

Let's go over the list you've provided. First, about the corals. I don't know enough about each specific coral you've listed but Smitty was totally right anything that stings will be a problem for your ponies. That usually eliminates a lot of the stony corals. I was pretty sure about that but wanted to hear about others experience . I will move my frogspawn out Also, some of the corals you've listed makes me concerned about the lighting you've got. I only run VHO's its not to bright and I would be able to add shade for them. Horses can get stressed under intense light. You'll need to provide shade for them if you've got strong lighting system. Good coral choices for seahorse tanks include anything that has branches and doesn't sting. My horses really love the non-stinging gorgonians and the finger typed leather corals. Also, you may want to start looking into branching macro algae. While we're on the stinging subject, you probably want to start getting rid of your hermit crabs and your bristle worms. Not a problem I have no hermits lol Try to use CUC that doesn't have claws. I've got a few hermits and I'm trying to catch them and move them to my fuge.

Something that is concerning me is your desire to mix seahorses and pipefish. I haven't done this but what I do know is that all pipefish are wild-caught which means they almost certainly have parasites. Most wild-caught seahorses will have parasites too. You'll need to be diligent about quarantine and de-worming all of your new arrivals. The favorite de-worming technique for most seahorse owners is the freshwater dip. I haven't had the need for doing this but I hear it's awful to watch but very effective. Do your research here, I just don't know enough about mixing pipefish and seahorses to give you advice. What I know about pipefish is that they are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to train on frozen foods. Are you ready to provide an assortment of live pods/ shrimps for them? I do know pipefish, I have kept them for years and have never had any issues in training them to frozen foods. At the moment I have 3 different species types of pipefish (one pair which breeds regularly in my tank) :)

About keeping a group of horses. Horses need to be in 'herds' they are very social animals and they can die if they are all alone in a tank. Mine are happiest when I've got 4-6 and it doesn't matter how much real estate they've got to cover, they hang out together no matter how big or small the tank. I had 4 in my 26 gallon and 5 in my 55 gallon. If you've got a smaller tank, you'll need to be changing water more frequently and you'll need an amazing cleaning system (horses are pigs) but as long as there's a group, you're fine. When I move into my 155 gallon, I'm thinking 10-12 horses maybe 14? We'll see that was my thoughts. My 180 is pretty self sustaining, thats why I am choosing to do this in my 180 and not my nano's. So do you think 20 + horses? and would I be able to add them at seperate times or will they be territorial to each other

Lastly, which species. I've kept H. erectus and H. reidi. Of those two, my favorite is the erectus. They are very personable, much more hardy and very active horses. The reidi are pretty and they know it, they tend to be posers and they are more temperamental about the slightest change to their environment. There are lots of other species each with their own set of tank needs so I would say to talk to Dan and Abbey at Seahorse Source Seahorse Source, the ultimate place for captive bred seahorses. great site I have been researching with them for years :) and they will be able to give you good advice on a breed that would be good for you. There is a lot of controversy amongst seahorse keepers about mixing species. Most strongly state that it is very wrong to mix species. From a practical point of view many of them have different needs so you can't. I'll let you make up your own mind on that one. I have erectus and reidi in the same tank, I mixed them before I found out you shouldn't. They are both Atlantic seahorses with similar needs. I won't do it again and I wish I could separate them now but one of my reidi has bonded with an erectus and I feel it would be worse to move them. I agree with the "don't mix" philosophy and I won't do it again. why would you not mix them again? what challenges have you had with this?

Little fish gave you great advice, take the class offered by Pete Giwonja. They are awesome, FREE, classes and they will cover everything you need to know about these beautiful animals!

Welcome aboard!
C

Thanks for the great info.
 
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There are few things to consider with your tank, besides compatable corals. Sea horses dont do well alone, and for such a large tank you would have to have quite a few for them to be happy. Also, they aren't open swimmers so you will be spending lots of time looking for them in such a huge tank.

Personally, if i was were you, I would keep the 180 tank as it is and start up a smaller sea horse tank. A tall 30 gal tank would be perfect for a pair of erectus which would allow you to see them more easily and enjoy them more.

If you are serious about doing sea horses, check out seahorse.com and take Pete's lessons and seahorsesource.com is run by amazing people and seahorse.org is also an amazing place for more information and is a forum just for sea horses

I want to put in at least a dozen. The reason I want to do this in my 180 is its very stable and I do not want to set up another tank. (I have way to many right now) as far as them not being seen right away thats the point right! ;)

I will check out Pete's lessons thanks for the info.
 
Winy, I would LOVE to hear about your pipefish experience. How do you train them to frozen? Where do you get them? Do you have trouble with parasites? What kind of QT are you doing with them?? Do you have other fish in with them? I would LOVE to put them in my 26 gallon!

You can add horses at any time they are very social creatures and they will accept new members of the herd easily. I'm adding mine 2 at a time every 6 months to a year or so. I don't want them all to be the same age! When I get babies, it is important to set up a little system just for them. Not only is the QT a good idea, but they are really bad at finding food in a tank. I got a frosted tupperware container that held maybe 4 gallons of water. Also got a tiny little HOB filter- it's so small it uses an airline to create the suction not a pump. I also got a bubble stone just to keep the water moving. I added just a couple pieces of macro so they would have a hitch to grab. Once they got adjusted, I added little rocks and macro each day to get them used to chasing down their food. I did water changes each day and siphoned the uneaten food. The whole process took about a week before they were able to find their food and then I moved them to the Main Tank.

I won't mix my species for a lot of reasons and none of them are impressive. First, people that really know horses say not to. They are really passionate about this being a bad idea. I mean they get totally heated about mixing species! I only have a year and a half with horses and I'm going to listen to people that have a lot of experience because I really don't want to 'blow it' when my horses are on the line. They have so much personality, I just adore them and would feel awful if I ignored this and caused one of them to die. Another reason, the horses are very social creatures and my 2 reidi just don't 'fit' into the rest of the herd. They are different. One of my reidi have paired with an erectus but they still just don't fit in. Also, their requirements are different. Even though they are both Atlantic horse species, they like different temperatures and the reidi are more temperamental so I tend to favor their needs which I'm sure is stressing the erectus some. I know none of these are compelling reasons on their own so I guess I'm not the one to ask about what's wrong with mixing species. If you're going to mix species and I can't talk you out of it, I would strongly suggest that you pick species that come from the same geographical area, like erectus and reidi both being southern Atlantic, and they have similar tank needs. Many species need very frigid temperatures so you want to be sure to pay close attention to that. Ask Pete on Seahorse.com - Seahorse, Sea Life, Marine Life, Aquafarm Sales, Feeds and Accessories - Home about it. I would be interested to hear what he says. I talked to Abbey at Seahorse Source, the ultimate place for captive bred seahorses. about it and she feels it is a good idea to keep them separate but she knows of people doing it all the time. She told me that the Smithsonian museum had a pair bonded erectus and reidi that produced healthy fry that resembled erectus. I'm loving the erectus and that's what I will buy for my current 55 gallon and my 155 gallon. I'm trying to work out a taller tank where I can get some ingens going because they are soooo big! You need 30-36 inches of tank height for them.

I hope this helps you make up your mind! Why don't you start a build thread?

C
 
the pipes I have now are
doryrhamphus melopleura Dwarfs this is my breeding pair. Now only if I could learn to keep the babies.. these would be the best for your 26 gallon.
dunckerocampus pessuliferus many banded
corythoichthys rowley dragon pipe would be good for your 26 gallon.
doryrhamphus janssi jansis pipe (these guys are probably the hardest to adapt)

I just start feeding heavy cyclops, cyclopeeze and baby mysis shrimp. I have not had any issues with them starting to eat these foods pretty much right away.

right now they live with dussumeiri tang, vlamingi tang, 2 scopas tangs, blue tang, foxface, 2 black perculas, yellow eye kole tang, mandarin, scooter. because I have these fish in with then they tend to stay hidden most of the day, except for my many banded he is super friendly out and about all the time. and they all come out when I feed.

let me know if you have any other questions about them.
 
how did you QT your pipes? what about parasites? have you set up a paternity ward for your babies? liveaquaria doesn't have the dwarfs where did you get them? liveaquaria also says the dragon pipe needs a 55 gallon tank, is that for pods or swimming room or both?


c
 
how did you QT your pipes? I kept them in a seperate aquarium and got them eating frozen (which took about 2-3 weeks) once they ate I just added them to my 180. I never freshwater dipped. You should never treat them with copper.. what about parasites? I have never had any issues with parasites, that didnt just go away once they were comfortable in their tank. have you set up a paternity ward for your babies? I would love to but I would need to keep the parents in their own tank, and then try to feed and keep a baby which is probably 1/4 of the size of a pin head LOL :D maybe one day. liveaquaria doesn't have the dwarfs where did you get them? I got them from one of my suppliers (I own a business) I could help you find a couple but I wouldnt be able to ship them. liveaquaria also says the dragon pipe needs a 55 gallon tank, is that for pods or swimming room or both? Its mostly for pods, the dragons don't swim alot they are mostly bottom dwellers they will kinda scoot around. The only time my dragon swims is when I feed. :mrgreen:


c


I like to add pods to my aquariums every 6 months, just to be sure that my pipes and dragonettes won't run out of them, even though they will eat frozen.
 
Here are some pics of my dwarfs and many banded. I will need to look for pics of my janses.

If you look close at the belly of one of my dwarfs you will see eggs on his belly.
 

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