Filter?

SeaBee

Ha Ha Thats Funny!
I currently have 2 eheims, 2215 canister, with charcoal and bio stuff in them. I also have a Remora C hob protien skimmer, and 2 Korilla #2 pumps in my 55 gal. tank. I also have about 69 lbs. of live rock. The tank has been set up for three months and all my parameters are good and now seem steady. The question I have is that sumps seem to be the way to go. I have a problem with sumps, that is being a plumber, I know these open sytems will fail and flood. I want to know what the deal is, and can I just put bio balls in one eheim, and charcoal in the other? Someone mentioned nitrate factory to me about the canister. Lets get the prop opinion on this, because I just dont trust the sumps.
 
SeaBee,

Live Rock & Live Sand become your natural "bio" in your aquarium.
There really is no need for the canisters or bio balls (mechanical bio).

A sump is the more preferred method in aquarium keeping for many reasons.
A sump allows for movement of equipment out of your DT, thus, un-cluttering your display.
A sump also allows for a great place to cultivate pods with the incorporation of a refugium.
A sump will also add to the total water volume of your system, which alone is a tremendous benefit to keeping better water quality and parameters.

If you setup your sump / overflow properly (many DIY guides in the forums) you will not be prone to flooding.
 
I'd say 90 to 95% of people in this hobby use sumps. If they were destined to fail, as you believe they are, the proportion of people using them wouldn't be so high. If set up right, they won't flood.

I wouldn't use canisters or HOB filters. I'd just stick with the protein skimmer and live rock.
 
I hope they dont fail, but my nightmare would be while away for a day the darn thing leaked. Well I have the live rock and skimmer, so are the canisters ok? I was told to just use them for charcoal and circulation. I cant see getting rid of them, too expensive.
 
And what controls the water inlet on the sump? It looks like a toilet bowl float to me, and they fail plenty, ever hear of a leaky toilet? Perhaps I'm just paranoid....LOL. I also had my wife call me at work one day screaming that the tank was draining. Good sport she is, all she cared about was the fish! The damage to the house was pricless...carpet, dining room set, mold, it was bad. So now I change my tubing regular, and use stainless hose clamps on all my fittings. I also have towels under ther to check for leaks, and a water alarm!
 
SeaBee,

You can keep the canisters if you wish....but they are pretty much useless.
Yes, you can run GFO or Carbon, but you don't run these continuously...only as needed.

In my opinion, canisters & hob filters are just safe harbors for "crap" and will eventually lead to the decrease in your water parameters.

Ebay / Craigslist will be your friend....then you can use the money for more livestock.
 
The hob I was refering to meant the skimmer, sry, I should have specified. So can someone link me to a diagram of how to set up a sump? I really dont want to drop another 2 or 4 hundred on this thing, I could end up in divorce court! J/K.
 
Water inlet on the sump? I'm confused. No one uses toilet bowl floats to control stuff on their sumps. You basically have water draining from the main tank (either from a hole drilled in it or a hang-on-back overflow box), and a pump returning the water back to the main tank.

Sumps are very inexpensive to set up. The pump will be the most expensive part. You need an empty tank or rubbermaid tub for the sump itself, some PVC and a pump. If your tank is not drilled, you'll also need to buy an overflow box.
 
ok, so a siphon brings the water down, and what controls the water from just dumping the whole tank into the sump? What if the pump fails that returns the water? Sry for my ignorance, hence the term newbie....
 
The water in the main tank can only drain as fast as the pump brings it back up. If the pump stops working, the water will stop going through the overflow box because the water level will drop down below the lip of the overflow box. Sumps are only kept 2/3 or so full to accommodate the little bit of extra water that will go through the overflow box if the pump does fail.

If the pump fails, you have holes drilled in the return line to create a siphon break. As soon as a bit of air gets sucked into that hole, a reverse siphon will not occur. You can also use a one-way valve on the return line as a back up for the siphon holes.
 
I only have about 7 1/2 inches width under mt stand to work with, front to back, so I am looking for a plastic box, or might have one made, I happen to have a friend who owns a glass company! Lets see if he calls me back. I cant even fit a standard 10 g. under there without cutting the stand, which I will not do. This will be fun! I'm going to try and build my own, seems way cheaper than a store bought one. Looking foward to your guys input. Thanks.
 
it is alot cheaper to build one. you can make it as long as your stand and to give you the maximum water volume that you can get
 
I can go 7 1/2 frnt to bck, 16 wide, by 15 tall would fit nicely under there. I'm gonna talk to my glass guy and ask him to make it out of plexiglass. Can someone shoot me a picture indicating how to baffle the water flow? Im gonna look online also on how to build this. Then I need a overflow box on the tank right?
 
lemme just say now that this is gonna be a long one, but i'm hoping that i can clear up some of the questions, and help releave some of the stress....

i would stay away from the plexy, and go with lexan (polycarbonate) if you are gonna go plastic.... (water permiation, yellowing, cracking, and general strength)

setting up a sump properly is really pretty easy. And your concerns of flooding are valid, but, heres the deal, with everything that everyone has told you above being true, the thing that you have to picture is that if you are using a hang on back overflow, really the only failure point is the u-tube, and that's only an issue if you consistantly have insufficient flow...

nothing comes out of the main tank untill the pump in the sump pushes water up to the DT(display tank) to cause its level to go up, then as that level rises, the water flows over into the inside box of the HOB overflow, this causes an imballance between the inside box and the outside one. this differential causes water to flow from the inside box to the outside one...

from there, the water falls via gravity to the sump... (in plumbing)

In the event of a power failure(personally i live out in the boonies, so this is a daily occourence) i have a UPS on my return pumps.... (i scrounged it outta a dumpster, cleaned it up, tested it, and put a battery in it for $20 and bingo)

when the power goes out(without a ups) the water in both the drain comming down from the overflow, and the water in the return tube both flow back down to the sump. Here's the trick, your sump isnt full when its operating normally... theres a couple gallons of "empty space" in the top, that way this power outage flow has somewhere to go and not on the floor.

Like was said above, you drill a one-eighth (1/8) inch hole in that return line, right where the water level in the tank hits it. This way when the pump stops, it can suck air, rather than back syphoning the water out of the tank.

With the way that i have mine set up, i only get 2 gallons of back flow in a power outage.. but i have 9 gallons of free space in the sump, so it never overflows...

now, back to what i mentioned earlier about the u-tube and enough flow. This u-tube holds its syphon suction all the time, or should. but, for example, lets say you have a 300 gallon per hour overflow, but your only putting 150 gallons per hour through it. What can happen in this situation is, that over time, air bubles will collect in the top of the u-tube, and will eventually buildup to the point of breaking the syphon, then you have a problem. If done correctly, the worst that happens is that you burn up a pump. if you have enough flow through the u-tube, (again with the 300gph example) if you had 275 gallons per hour flowing through it, then there is enough flow velocity to push these air bubbles out of the u-tube, and thus it becomes self clearing. this is how it should be done....

controlling the flow down to the sump is non existant.. no more water can come down, than you are pushing up with the pump, so... if you are pushing 275 up, then your gonna get 275 down... there is NO restrictions on the down hill side...

the tiolet float that i think you are talking about is for an automatic top off or ATO, that is something that some people add to thier sump to automatically replace evaporated water... i built mine from a dogs water dish that you could hook a garden hose to, and it would automatically fill the bowl when the water level got low, well, thats exactly how i'm using it.. when the water level drops in my sump(specifically in the return pump section) the float dropps, opens the valve, and then i have a small pump that is on a timer, and at specified times that pump is triggered for 2 min, and pushes clean water into that float valve. It works abso-lutely-freakn perfect.

something else that i was thinking about... your dimentions of 7x15x16 is a total volume of 7.27 gallons, roughly, subtract the power outage safety margin, and your looking at about 4 gallons of sump/fuge... thats not much, but it'd be enough to have some cheto and some sand in, and help clean up your system that way, but as for a real water volume adder, its something, but not a lot....


if you wanna talk about it, i can PM you my cell # and we can chat at length about it after i get home and get ready for tomorrow.... Just send me a PM if you wanna...
 
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Thanks project5, I'll be home later as well, got this real bad habit called work, I need therapy for it! Anyway, thanks Ted for that link, that guy has some serious stuff going on! I will order the overflow tonight as well from Fosters and Smith, good price. I will make the sump larger, what about a refuge? Might as well, but what is all this stuff really for? I know I can move out my skimmer and heater to the sump, but what else? Thanks all. I appreciate the help. I think I can go larger a little to 7 3/4 x 14 t x 20 w.
 
a refuge is a place that you can grow macro algea. It helps absorb nitrates and phosphates. Then you manually cut back the algea and remove it from the tank. This process is called nutrient export. Algea uses the nutrients to grow, you remove the algea and the nutrients that it took in along with it.

Brian
 
the fuge is for growing macro algae. I recommend using cheto algae. The algae will use up the nutrients in the water which will keep the bad algae down in the main tank. Also if you run if on a reverse photo period your ph will be more balanced. Some people also have a deep sand bed in the fuge which helps with non-aerobic bacteria which also will lower nitrates. Another benefit of the fuge is you can have a nice pod population in there which will provide a natural food source for your fish. All around a fuge is a good thing and almost everyone on this forum uses one.
 
yea, and any time you can add volume to the system, then your adding stability, and surface area for gas exchange... not to mention removing stuff from the main tank...

dont forget you can have an ATO on a sump as well...

I understand the work stuff, thats why i have 3+ hours of commute every day...

we can talk about the layout and i can draw up some plans for you while we're on the phone later... but we can combine the sump and fuge all into one if we get creative...

Heck, i ran a 10gal sump/fuge combo(homebrew) for like 6 months on my 75, and i'm telling you, as silly as it sounds, i could see that my fish were happier once the macro algae started growing, and i have never had the "major" hair algae problems that some people have with newer setups... cause i'm exporting nutrients on a weekly basis.... clumps of it as a matter of fact...
 
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